Among Friends

[dooBdoo]

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Frosted Cake wrote:

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dooBdoo wrote:

         @Jubilant,   "Blackmail" is exactly the word I was thinking about after I posted and left the thread.    Just based on what @Frosted Cake has told us, or as far as she's aware, this person sounds like she's using her position to coerce people into adopting her personal faith.

Hi dooBdoo:

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I am unfamiliar with ministries and how they work.   This might sound naive, but what benefits does she have for wanting to make me a member of her church?   Do they pay people for bringing in a new person?   At one point, she e-mailed me that her mother is a "faith counselor" at her church and she wanted me to give her a call during my frustration.  I wonder if her mother would be rewarded somehow for bringing in a new member?  This is all new to me.  I've never had to deal with this kind of thing in all my years.

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         Hi, @Frosted Cake!   I just now saw this post, and I think others have answered/explained well.   I would just add that it varies widely depending upon the denomination and even the individual places of worship, so only the woman in question could tell you specifically what her motivation might be.   No matter what, though, I still maintain that the activities you described are unacceptable and unprofessional, and highly likely causing problems for everyone she "counsels."

[Frosted Cake]

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@dooBdoo wrote:

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@Frosted Cake wrote:

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@dooBdoo wrote:

         @jubilant,   "Blackmail" is exactly the word I was thinking about after I posted and left the thread.    Just based on what @Frosted Cake has told us, or as far as she's aware, this person sounds like she's using her position to coerce people into adopting her personal faith.

Hi dooBdoo:

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I am unfamiliar with ministries and how they work.   This might sound naive, but what benefits does she have for wanting to make me a member of her church?   Do they pay people for bringing in a new person?   At one point, she e-mailed me that her mother is a "faith counselor" at her church and she wanted me to give her a call during my frustration.  I wonder if her mother would be rewarded somehow for bringing in a new member?  This is all new to me.  I've never had to deal with this kind of thing in all my years.

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         Hi, @Frosted Cake!   I just now saw this post, and I think others have answered/explained well.   I would just add that it varies widely depending upon the denomination and even the individual places of worship, so only the woman in question could tell you specifically what her motivation might be.   No matter what, though, I still maintain that the activities you described are unacceptable and unprofessional, and highly likely causing problems for everyone she "counsels."

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Thanks dooBdoo.

I have a call into the city mgr's office.   It's after 4pm here so not sure if they'll call me back today.  I will keep you abreast of what happens.

[Kachina624]

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Frosted Cake wrote:

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

Just a couple comments/questions.

Is this really a program funded with public funds?  While I was out job searching I saw many times various church groups working in conjunction with local government.  Perhaps this program is being funded through church funds.

Second, if you are happy with the advise you were getting, ask to work with someone else there.  Perhaps someone else in the office can give you a different perspective.

Our local unemployment offices are wonderful resources when looking for a job.  They will help with resume, interview techniques as well as leads to employeers who have openings.  You do not have to be collecting unemployment to use these services.

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Her job is not funded by any church.   It's a city gov't job.

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Guess I just cannot see a municipality having the funds available to duplicate services that are provided by most state and charitable organizations.  Good luck with your job search

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@CrazyDaisy  As I explained in an earlier post, these are Federally funded programs with the money being funneled through the state down to local workforce boards.  Different states have slightly different hierarchy but the paper trail remains pretty much the same.  The chairman of the local workforce board would probably be very interested in @Frosted Cake story.  This is usually a local businessman.

[Big Sister]

It sounds like she has her own personal agenda (getting you to her church) and not the intended agenda (helping you find a job.)

[Moonchilde]

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@Frosted Cake wrote:

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@dooBdoo wrote:

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@Frosted Cake wrote:

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@dooBdoo wrote:

         @jubilant,   "Blackmail" is exactly the word I was thinking about after I posted and left the thread.    Just based on what @Frosted Cake has told us, or as far as she's aware, this person sounds like she's using her position to coerce people into adopting her personal faith.

Hi dooBdoo:

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I am unfamiliar with ministries and how they work.   This might sound naive, but what benefits does she have for wanting to make me a member of her church?   Do they pay people for bringing in a new person?   At one point, she e-mailed me that her mother is a "faith counselor" at her church and she wanted me to give her a call during my frustration.  I wonder if her mother would be rewarded somehow for bringing in a new member?  This is all new to me.  I've never had to deal with this kind of thing in all my years.

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         Hi, @Frosted Cake!   I just now saw this post, and I think others have answered/explained well.   I would just add that it varies widely depending upon the denomination and even the individual places of worship, so only the woman in question could tell you specifically what her motivation might be.   No matter what, though, I still maintain that the activities you described are unacceptable and unprofessional, and highly likely causing problems for everyone she "counsels."

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Thanks dooBdoo.

I have a call into the city mgr's office.   It's after 4pm here so not sure if they'll call me back today.  I will keep you abreast of what happens.

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Oh, great! Yes, many of us would like to know what happens - do keep us posted.

[NYC Susan]

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@Frosted Cake wrote:

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

Just a couple comments/questions.

Is this really a program funded with public funds?  While I was out job searching I saw many times various church groups working in conjunction with local government.  Perhaps this program is being funded through church funds.

Second, if you are happy with the advise you were getting, ask to work with someone else there.  Perhaps someone else in the office can give you a different perspective.

Our local unemployment offices are wonderful resources when looking for a job.  They will help with resume, interview techniques as well as leads to employeers who have openings.  You do not have to be collecting unemployment to use these services.

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Her job is not funded by any church.   It's a city gov't job.

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Guess I just cannot see a municipality having the funds available to duplicate services that are provided by most state and charitable organizations.  Good luck with your job search

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It's actually pretty common.  I've referred many people, and once used these services myself.

[NYC Susan]

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@Tinkrbl44 wrote:

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@twinkies wrote:

Thank her for her help and go your way , you have a right to your own beliefs and faith , She is narrow minded and not really a friend to disreguard your beliefs , Keep looking and do not give up, and use  your own faith to guide you , God is fair an dwill follow and help you , God helps those who help themselves , Your "friend " has a misguided   thought process about what faith really is , Faith is individual to each of us.

 cathy from ma

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@twinkies

Sorry, but I don't think this extortionist  should get a free pass on this .... what she's doing is illegal,   and to tell the OP to "go her way" isn't addressing the real problem here.  That woman has NO RIGHT to attach conditions to whether or not she will help @Frosted Cake.     What she has done is very, very wrong.

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I agree!  Yes, it if was a "friend", then I would advise differently.  But this woman is not a friend and this is not a friendship situation.  It's something else entirely.  It goes way beyond being "narrow-minded".

She has no right to do what she did (and likely has done before and intends to do again).  She shouldn't be discussing religion in any way at all in the role that she plays in the OP's life.  It's completely wrong, and she absolutely should be reported.

 No way would I give this woman a free pass.  TPTB need to know.  Hopefully, her job will go to someone who will do it properly and without ulterior motives.

[NYC Susan]

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@stevieb wrote:

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@Frosted Cake wrote:

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@jubilant wrote:

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@hckynut wrote:

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None of us needs more problems, but the simple reality is that if you aren't willing to risk more problems with regard to this situation then, as many have suggested, simply walk away. Stop ruminating about follow-up emails, playing 'gotcha', or whether or not she's still willing to help you. At this point, what help do you think she can give? If, at some point, you're in stronger position both personally and professionally, you can follow this up then. To do so now could just net you a world of hurt. She might be chastised, warned, or reprimanded, but unless there is a history of problems, most employers have a system of progressive discipline and employees don't tend to be dismissed based on a first offense, unless it's truly egregious. While this might seem egregious to you and others, odds are, it won't be perceived that way by her employer. They will most likely simply document that she is being disciplined and counseled.

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I disagree.  This is a very serious situation, and there could be legal ramifications.  I am sure they will take it very, very seriously.  The OP may never know exactly how it's handled, but there is no way they will take a situation like this and simply write this woman up and shove something in her file.  That absolutely will not happen.  This is not a small infraction.  It's a very big thing, and it needs to be stopped immediately, in no uncertain terms. They can be in a whole lot of trouble if they are employing someone who does what she's doing. There's no doubt they will protect themselves to be sure that it doesn't look as though they condone it.  The fallout could be massive.

You're also assuming this is her first offense, but it's pretty likely that it isn't.  Either way, though, what she did is most definitely not okay and it crosses a line that they know very well cannot be crossed.  In addition to being dead wrong and inappropriate, she's shown extremely poor judgment, a clear ulterior motive, an inability to concentrate on the job she was hired to do, and outright defiance.  This is not some small workplace infraction.  It's much, much more than that.  In a position such as hers, she is not allowed to even talk about religion, never mind push her religious agenda on someone else.  She knows that, and she did it anyway.

As I said, the OP may never know exactly how it ends up being handled, and that's okay.  I don't see "a world of hurt" here at all.  She's absolutely doing the right thing by letting them know, and I'm sure that's what they'll tell her.  She doesn't need this woman anymore - She can take the good things that she's learned, build on them, find other resources if she feels she needs them, continue her job search, and she'll be fine.

IMO it's rarely a good idea to simply ignore and look the other way.  

[NYC Susan]

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@Frosted Cake wrote:

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@NYC Susan wrote:

@Frosted Cake, I don't think there's any question.  You have to report her.  She is completely inappropriate, and if she tried to force her own religious beliefs on you then she likely has done it to others and will continue to do so.

I know you said you're kind of afraid to report her.  Don't be.  There may have been other complaints about her, and your story could actually be very helpful.  And if her superiors don't know, then they should!  There is absolutely no way that anyone can justify what she did.  She's being paid to do a specific job, and she has crossed a very serious line.  This wasn't a one-time slip of the tongue.  She was intent and determined, and she was 1000% wrong.

I also don't think you should wait.  Yes, your job search is important, but reporting her isn't going to take much time.  You'll just tell them about your experience and how uncomfortable it made you.  I am sure they will be grateful that you came forward.  

A few years ago, I was involved in a situation when I was counseling a woman who had been accused by a nasty neighbor of abusing her kids.  She wasn't abusing them, but she was investigated, had to put her kids through physical exams, etc.  She was a single mom and having financial problems, but handling things pretty well.  However, a county social worker showed up at her house one night, proceeded to sit on the couch and tell this woman that if she had Jesus in her life, she would be better able to handle stress and wouldn't be so angry that she would hit her kids!  My patient calmly told the woman that she was Jewish, happy in her religion, wasn't angry, and wasn't hitting her kids.  But the social worker would not let up, and kept telling her that all of her problems would be solved if she found Jesus.  When I heard about this, I was beyond furious!  And I reported her.  The county agency fell all over themselves apologizing to my patient.  They were as outraged as I was, and thanked us repeatedly for letting them know.  And then they went above & beyond for her, helping her get thru the remaining paperwork of her case quickly, etc.

You are certainly not as vulnerable as this young mother was, but it's still the same in that what was done was wrong.  It's not allowed and it should not be tolerated.  IMO ignoring it is the wrong thing to do because if she did it to you, she will do it others, and the next person might be more impressionable and not as savvy as you are.  Sorry for the length of this, and if I sound overly-emotional.  It just pushed some buttons for me because it reminded me of the experience I mentioned.  No one in her position should be inviting you to church in the first place, never mind all the rest that she said.  And don't worry - No one will hold it against you if you report it.  Quite the opposite.  They need to know and they want to know.  Just as you and I would certainly want to know if we had an employee who was behaving inappropriately.  I would be really upset if this was going on with an employee of mine and no one told me.  For sure, I would want to know because that's the only way to fix the problem.  (Not to mention that in this case there could be serious legal ramifications for them if they allow it to continue.)

So my advice is to cut all ties with her, and report what happened.  Good luck with your job search!  It sounds as though you're off to a good start, and I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that you find a job that you love.

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NYC Susan,

Such great advice and suggestions.  I really appreciate your input.  I plan to call today and make an appt with a city official to discuss this situation.   It will be interesting to see what and if the city does anything about it.

Thanks for the support and encouragement.  I'll let you all know how it goes.  I'm nervous, but know it's the right thing to do.

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Thank YOU for reading my super-long reply!  As I said, it pushed some buttons for me.  I've had lots of experience with this kind of thing.  The example I cited was just one of many.  Unfortunately.

I'm glad that you are going forward with this.  It IS the right thing to do.  They (whoever  you end up speaking to)  may or may not say much since they'll be very interested in hearing what you have to say.  And they do have to protect her privacy, so they may listen more than they speak.  You may be the first to come to them with this kind of information, or they may already have heard from others.

Whatever happens, just know that they will be grateful because this is exactly the kind of thing they need to know, and they are well aware that many people would just cut ties and move on without a word of explanation.  Or come after them with a lawsuit. Don't be nervous -  You're very articulate here, so I'm sure you'll do fine.

And remember that you're doing a really good thing, and I believe that good things will happen for you in return!

 (I love your name, btw.  I don't even like cake, but it makes me hungry every time I see it!)  :-)

[CouponQueen]

I didn't read all the replies but I would speak to somebody higher up..if she did it to you..who knows who else she has did it to.

She shouldn't be taking people from her contact via her job and soliciting them to her church..even if she is doing it from her private email account..she obtained your email from you going to the City to obtain some guidance.

I would not just ignore it..as who knows how many others she has did this too..