Re: So, Who Assassinated JFK?

suzyQ3 · ‎03-09-2010

@pitdakota wrote:

Some people aren't well and shoot other people for reasons only they will ever know. They act alone, they have their own warped reasons. It happens more often now than ever, yet we're still so concerned with this one case as if Oswald is somehow different and couldn't possibly have just bee one more crazy guy with a gun.
I think what may be the difference is that Kennedy was not well loved in Dallas at the time. It is weird that the entire route was not secured by the secret service and the fbi. Dallas was almost a small town so to speak at the time. And later to have Jack Ruby knock off Oswald was unbelievable. And Jack R. had known mob associations. Never have i heard an explanation of why he did what he did. Makes no sense unless the mob wanted to keep Oswald quiet. Maybe it's because i am a Texan, but i never thought Johnson was involved. But i doubt that Oswald was the lone gunman. We will never know.
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@Shawnie, it is really not weird that the entire route was not secured by the secret service or the FBi. Having a father that was a commander in the US Air Force responsible for security for 2 different presidential visits back in day I am pretty familiar with all the preparation and expectations of security that goes along with a presidential visit. In fact, one was for JFK at Eglin Air Force base and the other was Johnson at Patrick AFB.

At any rate, even back then it was impossible to secure an entire motorcade route. Not enough manpower to do something like that. In fact, they don't even attempt to do that today. They will close traffic on streets a prescribed amount of time before and after the presidential limo is scheduled to travel the road. But there are still people working in those buildings, people eating in those establishments, etc. There is no way they can totally secure that particular route. Not now and not back then.

In fact, the Secret Service wanted tighter security for the Dallas motorcade. This has been well established and documented by the Secret Service by those in service at the time. It was Kennedy, himself, that presented major challenges because he did essentially "order" the Secret Service to stand back. Kennedy loved crowds and meeting people so it presented real challenges for the Secret Service, especially when he was in campaign mode as President.

On the day he was assassinated, the Secret Service wanted the canopy over the limo, but Kennedy refused. He insisted the top of the car be open because he wanted people to be able to see him.

Needless to say, this changed the way the Secret Service operated and changed their policy that a President could insist on not having a certain type of security or "opt out" of a certain security process put in place for presidential travel.

So, one of the ironies about that day is that the very decision that Kennedy made about insisting that he have an open car motorcade, despite what the Secret Service wanted....ended up costing him his life.

@pitdakota, I can always count on you to be rational and informative. Oh, and have a wonderful holiday season.

~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

pitdakota · ‎03-16-2010

@Shawnie, Oswald worked at the place located in the building from which he fired the shots.

I do know that when Kennedy came to Eglin AFB, Dad was very anxious. There is a tremendous amout of preparation that is involved. Eglin is a large Air Force base with quite a bit of swampy areas. Of course, the base is secure as any military base, but there is still no way to keep every single area of a base totally secure. So where there were little roadways going over culverts in those swampy areas, Air Police (that is what they were called back then) had to stand guard under there 24 hrs/day a week before the visit, for example.

Air Force One landed on the tarmac at Eglin and people were allowed along a rope line to see him before he got in the limo. Even though I was a young kid back then, I still remember seeing him and him grabbing my hand. But.....my father was very anxious about having all kinds of people along a rope line. No telling who could have walked across an unsecured part of the military base and gained entrance to that gathering. Dad would later talk about how many grey hairs he got from that day!

* Freedom has a taste the protected will never know *

pitdakota · ‎03-16-2010

Waving to @suzyQ3! Thanks and I hope you have a wonderful holiday season as well.

* Freedom has a taste the protected will never know *

viva923 · ‎03-12-2010

this is my own theory,

CIA, along with mobsters but I believe LBJ was also somehow involved.

LBJ had his hand in the Vietnam war (my husband said arms making)., JFK wanted to shut down the Vietnam war and LBJ would be out boocoo money so I believe LBJ had a hand with ordering the assassination of JFK because LBJ didn't want to lose out on his millions he had invested into the Vietnam war.

bathina · ‎03-14-2010

@viva923 wrote:
this is my own theory,
CIA, along with mobsters but I believe LBJ was also somehow involved.

LBJ had his hand in the Vietnam war (my husband said arms making)., JFK wanted to shut down the Vietnam war and LBJ would be out boocoo money so I believe LBJ had a hand with ordering the assassination of JFK because LBJ didn't want to lose out on his millions he had invested into the Vietnam war.

LBJ actually negotiated a deal to end the war. Richard Nixon, who was running for president, went behind LBJs back to squelch the deal to end the war because he didn't want the Dems to be able to claim credit. LBJ found out about it in the middle of the election and opted not to out Nixon. The rest is history. I just wonder how many more soldiers would be alive if Nixon hadn't worked covertly to keep the war going until he won the presidency

Shawnie · ‎03-10-2010

@pitdakota wrote:
@Shawnie, Oswald worked at the place located in the building from which he fired the shots.

I do know that when Kennedy came to Eglin AFB, Dad was very anxious. There is a tremendous amout of preparation that is involved. Eglin is a large Air Force base with quite a bit of swampy areas. Of course, the base is secure as any military base, but there is still no way to keep every single area of a base totally secure. So where there were little roadways going over culverts in those swampy areas, Air Police (that is what they were called back then) had to stand guard under there 24 hrs/day a week before the visit, for example.

Air Force One landed on the tarmac at Eglin and people were allowed along a rope line to see him before he got in the limo. Even though I was a young kid back then, I still remember seeing him and him grabbing my hand. But.....my father was very anxious about having all kinds of people along a rope line. No telling who could have walked across an unsecured part of the military base and gained entrance to that gathering. Dad would later talk about how many grey hairs he got from that day!

I am an Air Force Brat too. We called them the AP. My brother had the same responsibility for two Presidential visits at a base out west. Very very tight security.

pitdakota · ‎03-16-2010

Well @Shawnie, greetings to another Air Force brat! Yes, they were called Air Police back then. My father then was commander of the Air Police at both Eglin and Patrick. I think they are called military police today with a provo marshall or something like that.

So you were out west and we were mainly plain states and Florida.

At any rate, so neat to "meet" someone else that grew up in the Air Force!

Have a great holiday!

* Freedom has a taste the protected will never know *

Cakers3 · ‎06-17-2015

@bathina wrote:
@viva923 wrote:
this is my own theory,
CIA, along with mobsters but I believe LBJ was also somehow involved.

LBJ had his hand in the Vietnam war (my husband said arms making)., JFK wanted to shut down the Vietnam war and LBJ would be out boocoo money so I believe LBJ had a hand with ordering the assassination of JFK because LBJ didn't want to lose out on his millions he had invested into the Vietnam war.
LBJ actually negotiated a deal to end the war. Richard Nixon, who was running for president, went behind LBJs back to squelch the deal to end the war because he didn't want the Dems to be able to claim credit. LBJ found out about it in the middle of the election and opted not to out Nixon. The rest is history. I just wonder how many more soldiers would be alive if Nixon hadn't worked covertly to keep the war going until he won the presidency

@bathina Not quite. We know about Haldemann's notes and the involvement with Chennalaut to urge SVN to resist Paris peace talks, among other issues.

LBJ decided not to run and wanted to use VN to insure HHH would win

LBJ was furious about the Nixon allegations and ordered "bugs" to monitor Nixon, which did not give LBJ enough hard evidence that Nixon was at the top of stalling peace talks.

Keep in mind SVN was very resistant to peace talks, too, looking at them as disadvantageous to them.

It cannot be definitively proven that peace talks without Nixon's involvement would have happened; and it cannot be proven that the VN Conflict would have ended during LBJ's administration.

It has also not been completely proven that Haldemann carried out some or any instructions by Nixon.

The complexity of "he/she said and he/she did" wlll never firmly place all of the "blame" on Nixon.

LBJ did escalate tensions in VN; and Nixon as we know could not be trusted as far as you could throw him.

The LBJ and Nixon conflict had a lot of twists; some unfounded accusations, some proven.

But in the end we will never know if LBJ would have been successful and therefore the conclusion that Nixon thwarted ending the VN Conflict will always be a divided issue.

To say that LBJ would have been successful without Nixon's "interference" cannot be proven, especially when SVN themselves were resistant to what they perceived as disadvantageous plans for them.

A time of conflict with support to stay and support to leave; a time of deep sorrow, division, and a time when we, the people, struggled with one of the most intense issues this country had ever faced.

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh

RainCityWoman · ‎06-16-2015

It's interesting to look back at a different decade and realize where we have arrived in this decade. When Jack Kennedy visited my hometown during his campaign for the presidency, he came in on the one highway from the airport to the downtown area. We kids lived within walking distance of the bridge over that highway, and I remember lining up to watch the entourage as they drove beneath us. Actually there were very few official cars in the procession, and I can tell you for a fact there were NO police cars at the bridge at all. It was just us kids and some others from the hood. In our innocence, never in our wildest dreams would that candidate as president be assassinated in just three short years. Now, we all have to look out for our safety in theaters, church, grocery stores, schools, etc. It's a way of life. We are witnessing the devolution of society and all we once held dear to our hearts. Tacking some cliche term or meme onto it doesn't change a thing. We are in trouble and may be watching the end times of our 240 plus year experiment in democracy. It could be our sunset.