Re: From Rocks to Armed Guards.....

Nancy Drew · ‎03-11-2010

If school safety was easy to solve it would have been done decades ago. I am torn on the issue. I do think if teachers are comfortable they should be able to carry . On the other hand forcing a teacher to carry will make some very good teachers choose another occupation. This is a very complex problem and we can’t ignore the other factors that go into school violence.

Wrong is still wrong just because you benefited from it.

Cakers3 · ‎06-17-2015

@Nancy Drewwrote:
If school safety was easy to solve it would have been done decades ago. I am torn on the issue. I do think if teachers are comfortable they should be able to carry . On the other hand forcing a teacher to carry will make some very good teachers choose another occupation. This is a very complex problem and if we can’t ignore the other factors that go into school violence.

@Nancy Drew I don't know if it is being proposed that teachers will be forced to be armed?? I know that there are trainings for teachers but so far I think they are voluntary.

I agree completely that this is a very complex issue and it isn't just about schools.

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh

Sooner · ‎03-10-2010

@Ms tyrion2wrote:
@Soonerwrote:
@Ms tyrion2wrote:
@hckynutwrote:
@Ms tyrion2wrote:

More guns is not the answer. Never was. Never will be.

@Ms tyrion2,

And your answer is?

hckynut(john)

Sensible gun control.
Private citizens cannot buy military style weapons.
Limits to high capacity magazines.
Background checks for all gun and ammo purchases.
No guns for those on terror watch lists.
No guns for those who have been convicted of domestic abuse or other violent crimes.
Heavy penalties for those who do not safely secure their weapons in their households.
Mandatory waiting periods for purchase.
A ban on modifications that convert a gun into an automatic firearm.

Will all of this cure the problem? No, but it's a start and it's better than where we are now. None of these solutions infringe on 2A.

All of that would work for the law abiding citizens in the country. The criminals will always have guns of every kind and will be happy to sell you one should you want it. Laws only work on people who don't need them.

That excuse just doesn't fly any more. It's only an excuse and those who voice it never have a viable plan for something else.

@Ms tyrion2 No, it's rational thinking. I'm not caught up in imagining the world as I'd like it to be. It is what it is.

ValentinaBon · ‎03-19-2011

@Cakers3wrote:

@Ms tyrion2 We already have a Federal ban in place for those convicted of domestic abuse. That includes possession of the weapon BEFORE the conviction. I believe it is the Lautenburg Act (sp).

Background checks are conducted before a person can obtain a permit to carry a handgun; that permit is enough for a dealer, although some dealers will still check.

What is "sensible" gun control is a matter of perception and feasibility, not emotional reaction.

What I'm seeing a lot lately is a call for the gov't to confiscate and that is very troubling.

Should AR-15s be banned completely? Maybe, maybe not. We cannot prove that school shooting would diminish or stop completely if they are banned AND confiscated.

Nor can we prove that without such a ban and confiscation that these shootings will increase.

Bump stocks can be sold in many states but not attached to the rifle. Which is illogical.

I think it would be better for people to research what laws are out there, where the Feds and States stand, and truly understand just what a semi-automatic firearm entails.

@Cakers3 regading your the two bolded points...the first one I will add that some of the problem is that the we need law enforcement and/or the government to make sure they submit domestic violence charges into the appropriate database and to do so in a timely (meaning within a couple days, at least!!) manner. I remember one man in a fairly recent shooting was discharged from the military because of dosmetic abuse but the military never submitted this info into the system so when he applied for the gun, the background check never caught it. You can't stop people from purchasing guns if you don't ever enter the information into the background check system! He would have been prevented from legally purchasing a gun had that information been entered into the system. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have gotten his hands on one by other (illegal) means but at least we could have said we did everything we were suppose to, based on current laws, to try to stop him from obtaining one.

Regading the second bolded point, like I always tell people, if they don't like a particular law, work towards changing it....write your representatives, gather signatures and backing for the changes your proprose/want, etc...but first you must know and fully understand the laws already on the books. Often times it isn't that we need more laws but that we need the laws currently in place to actually be enforced.....

hckynut · ‎03-10-2010

Hello @Ms tyrion2,

I understood the search warrant criteria, but thought the "household safety" check was/is pretty vague. My 9mm is always within arms length of me, or on my body. Nobody in our home but my wife and our furry family members, and I guess to me that means "safely secure". My last crime was in 1960, speeding ticket going to work on Graveyard Shift. Not sure if that is classified as a crime anymore, but probably still on my record.

Not trying to change your mind, as I think our goal is the same. If I really felt these things would make a difference, I have no problem with deeper background checks. But banning, I think mostly effects those of us that have no intention of breaking existing laws.

Guns in the wrong hands can be dangerous for sure and most gun owners I know understand and use and keep them safely.

Many the fatal car crashes in our state unfortunately involve 16-18 year old drivers, and that too concerns me. On the same note, I feel the same about older drivers, many younger than myself. For many age has a major deteriorating effect on reaction time/eye site, and motor skills.

I got a 6 year license to drive when I was 75, and were it up to me, every driver over that age, should be required to pass an in-depth driving test every year, me included. So many needless deaths on our public roadways.

Think I'll leave our conversation at this. Best to you,

hckynut(john)

MorningLover · ‎10-04-2015

@Ms tyrion2wrote:
@hckynutwrote:

@Ms tyrion2

Thank you for your reply.

Several on your list are already laws(terrorists/felons)/Military Style? Cosmetic, and still semi-automatic.

To buy ammo? Maybe if a person orders 1,000's of rounds, me for a 50 round box for target practice?

Household safety checks? Need a search warrant signed by a judge to check my home.

High capacity magazines? I agree, don't need them other than Law Enforcement.

Waiting period? For what reason and how long? I waited 5 weeks to get my State CCW Permit.

All in all, criminals and evil people find ways, other than guns, to kill a mass number of people, but most already have illegal firearms.

I agree on all background checks, but does that include your's and my Medical Records? What about the HIPPA Laws.

We must remember the facts. A big majority of gun related deaths are by hand guns, not "military style weapons/a rifle". A minut' number by a rifle. I am more concerned about the 62,000+ drug annual related deaths, a lot of which ate non-adult kids. Many parents seem blind to this problem. Who, my children? Nope, it is always other people's kids that do drugs.

Thanks again, appreciate your cordial reply.

hckynut(john)

John,
You might want to check your facts. The ban on terror watch list purchases was rolled back by the current administration as were the restrictions on the mentally ill ability to buy a gun.

I should properly have said close all the loopholes for background checks.

If a homeowner's gun is used in the commission of a crime, the police darn sure could be allowed to check the storage safety of that homeowner. That's where the penalty situation would come into play. Or, if a child shoots himself or someone else. If you store your weapons properly, you should have no problem with this one.

Finally, yes. Ban assault style weapons. No one will change my mind on this one.

That's False... Not remotely accurate description of what happened. This administration eliminated a proposed rule that would have included

in the federal government gun background database, people who

received disability payments from Social Security and received

assistance to manage their benefits due to mental impairments.

This is a regulation that potentially deprived between 75,000 to

80,000 people of a right based not on what they had done but on

the basis of being classified by the gov. in a certain way. The fact

that these people may have these impairments did not inherently

mean that they were dangerous to themselves or others and

needed to be kept away from guns.

Nonametoday · ‎03-09-2010

@QueenDanceALotwrote:
@Nonametodaywrote:
@QueenDanceALotwrote:
@cherrywrote:
The president has the power to use the military to protect our kids, and this is a national crisis. I would do it if I sat in the Oval Office
The military is understaffed. Where will the personnel come from?
@QueenDanceALot Yes, that is what happened we ended the draft. Had the draft continued as it should have, patriotism would have continued. Those many of those who don't have to go, lose respect for the miltiary, feeling they are a cut above those who serve and have little or no respect what those give who serve.
@Nonametoday

I don't think "patriotism" would be "higher" if the draft were reinstituted. Our draft history show that a disproportionate number of those drafted placed low on the economic ladder and I have no reason to believe that this would change.

Sending the poorest young people off to fight wars would do nothing to increase patriotism. Now, if there were an equitable system of public service requirements for ALL people, that might be something valuable and positive. But that's another topic.

@QueenDanceALot Not true. When the draft was instituted, such as the Kennedys, Bush family members, Mattel family, etc., went. Check history.

Cakers3 · ‎06-17-2015

@Ms tyrion2wrote:
@Cakers3,
You have your opinion and I have mine. My list is not an "emotional" reaction. I could argue some of your "facts", but there is no point in doing so. Nothing will change your mind.

I was asked for my suggestions and I gave them. I wasn't asking for a critique of my qualifications and I won't ask yours.

@Ms tyrion2 FTLOG nobody is trying to change your mind. However, some of your suggestions were not new and in fact lacked an understanding of what is already in place.

However, I'll let John continue since you don't seem to have a problem with his responses.

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh

Nonametoday · ‎03-09-2010

@Nancy Drewwrote:
If school safety was easy to solve it would have been done decades ago. I am torn on the issue. I do think if teachers are comfortable they should be able to carry . On the other hand forcing a teacher to carry will make some very good teachers choose another occupation. This is a very complex problem and we can’t ignore the other factors that go into school violence.
The male teachers and female teachers who have served in the military and who are comptent, and also competent and reliable with a weapon. Those who want to be trained. It's not for everyone certainly but I would feel very comfortable with my sister's son who is an educator at a high level carrying a weapon if he chose to do so.

tansy · ‎01-02-2011

@Nonametodaywrote:
@QueenDanceALotwrote:
@cherrywrote:
The president has the power to use the military to protect our kids, and this is a national crisis. I would do it if I sat in the Oval Office
The military is understaffed. Where will the personnel come from?
@QueenDanceALot Yes, that is what happened we ended the draft. Had the draft continued as it should have, patriotism would have continued. Those many of those who don't have to go, lose respect for the miltiary, feeling they are a cut above those who serve and have little or no respect what those give who serve.

The Vietnam draft did not make people more patriotic:/

If the draft were ever to be reinstated, everyone, with very few exceptions, in a certain age group must serve, @Nonametoday.