Community Chat

[Ms tyrion2]

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@blackhole99 wrote:

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@jannabelle1 wrote:

@blackhole99, this is not just about transgender. Many schools in this country (elementary through college) are teaching that anyone who identifies with anything other than male/female can not be labeled as he/she. You're right - this is not an issue of proper English. It's a societal issue with our youth and what they are taught, and it's all about being gender neutral.

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@jannabelle1  I can tell you this is not being discussed in any public school in my area. I could see where this is discussed in a college classroom though. I just called my niece who is a student at a local private Methodist college and told her about this discussion and she said they are not making an issue of this at her school. No discussing anything about who is gender neutral at that school. In fact she though it was silly. It would be interesting to know where in the US this is actually being discussed in public school settings.

I don't think a private Methodist school is a public school.  What does one have to do with the other?

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[Marp]

(Excerpt from masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/in_push_for_gender-neutral_lan.html )

Ninth-grade students at Easthampton High School will no longer be called "freshmen." Instead, they will be called "first years."

The change was approved by the School Committee as part of their acceptance of a new, revised student handbook.

"For the purpose of class meetings and activities, including the class dues, students will be considered first years, sophomores, juniors, and seniors," the handbook states.

There was consensus among School Committee members "that the change to gender neutral language was a simple, sensible way to foster a more inclusive and equitable environment, and was in concert with the many transformations underway at our district," School Committee Policy Subcommittee chairwoman Marissa Carrere told The Republican in an email.

[hsawaknow]

@Marp

Next will be Juniors as Juniors will imply the son of a father. How far will this go. When will people use plain old common sense instead of being afraid of hurting someones feelings. Things shouldn't be taken so literally. SMH 

[Lindsays Grandma]

First of all your daughter should not have corrected your usage of grammar.  Secondly, there was nothing wrong with what you said.  She told you a friend is traveling and you correctly asked her, "Who is she traveling with?"  Were you supposed to ask, Who are they traveling with, no.  You were referring to one person, singular.  Don't beat yourself up, you were right, your daughter was wrong.  

[Lindsays Grandma]

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@this is my nic wrote:

Absolute craziness! Vendors and the hosts on QVC refer to clothing items and handbags as "her", but we're supposed to ignore the correct pronoun for male and female.   I will continue to use him, her, he, she. 

This will probably cause this thread to be shut down;  I'm saying it anyway.  The percentage of the population that is transgender is miniscule, yet that percentage seems to be being portrayed as if it were huge.  Everyone, with some exceptions, deserves to be treated kindly.  So, the transgender individuals absolutely should be treated with kindness.  However, as a society we should understand they are a very, very small minority.  Our language doesn't need to be changed.  

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[Marp]

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@hsawaknow wrote:

@Marp

Next will be Juniors as Juniors will imply the son of a father. How far will this go. When will people use plain old common sense instead of being afraid of hurting someones feelings. Things shouldn't be taken so literally. SMH 

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@hsawaknow, thankfully language, especially American English, is fluid.  What is odd, ridiculous, lacking common sense to some is the norm for others.  Those growing up using gender neutral language will look askance at today's language conventions, see earlier generations "stuffy" (at best) in their use of language and bemoan the language of subsequent generations.

If language didn't evolve we could still be speaking like example #1!  (excerpt from https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/diagram_4English.html )

This chart shows samples of the changes in English. #1 is Old English or Anglo-Saxon (circa 450-1066 CE). #2 is Middle English (circa 1066-1450 AD). #3 is Modern English from about the time of Shakespeare. #4 is another sample of Modern English, but it is more recent than #3.

[dex]

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@this is my nic wrote:

Absolute craziness! Vendors and the hosts on QVC refer to clothing items and handbags as "her", but we're supposed to ignore the correct pronoun for male and female.   I will continue to use him, her, he, she. 

This will probably cause this thread to be shut down;  I'm saying it anyway.  The percentage of the population that is transgender is miniscule, yet that percentage seems to be being portrayed as if it were huge.  Everyone, with some exceptions, deserves to be treated kindly.  So, the transgender individuals absolutely should be treated with kindness.  However, as a society we should understand they are a very, very small minority.  Our language doesn't need to be changed.  

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I think the language does need to be changed so all can be identified.We have new words for new ideas and creations and we definately need a word that gives everyone an identity.

[dooBdoo]

           I saw an article in which a young contributor addressed the topic.  The piece provides references (such as the OED) for the usage change for the singular "they" and "them."   I'll post one excerpt and also the title and copyable link.

" ... In English, we already use singular “they” all the time when the gender of a person is unknown.

Say you see fifty bucks on the ground and pick it up.

You might say:

“Oh, someone dropped their money here.

I’ll set it aside for them, I bet they are looking everywhere!”

Using “he or she” and “his or hers” in this situation is awkward and clunky, so we use singular they instead.

When someone uses they/them pronouns, all you have to do is apply that same sentence construction:

“Oh, Desmond dropped their money here. I’ll set it aside for them, I bet they are looking everywhere!”... "

from:

"All Your Questions About Gender-Neutral Pronouns Answered"

copy and paste link:

teenvogue.com/story/they-them-questions-answered

[151949]

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@petepetey wrote:

My college age child told me a friend of hers was traveling in Europe this week.

I asked 'who is she traveling with'?  She then told me she doesn't use 'she' anymore

it's 'they or 'them'.

This one is hard for me to wrap my head around. Why deny your gender? Is that a bad thing?  They or them is plural so are you speaking about one person or a group?

How can I understand this?

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Yeah, I also don't get the denying your gender thing. So if you just say it isn't so anymore - does that make it so. NO! You can't deny or change history by tearing down statues and you can't change your gender by not saying her or she. For heavens sake - who thinks this nonsense up ?

[Ms tyrion2]

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@151949 wrote:

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@petepetey wrote:

My college age child told me a friend of hers was traveling in Europe this week.

I asked 'who is she traveling with'?  She then told me she doesn't use 'she' anymore

it's 'they or 'them'.

This one is hard for me to wrap my head around. Why deny your gender? Is that a bad thing?  They or them is plural so are you speaking about one person or a group?

How can I understand this?

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Yeah, I also don't get the denying your gender thing. So if you just say it isn't so anymore - does that make it so. NO! You can't deny or change history by tearing down statues and you can't change your gender by not saying her or she. For heavens sake - who thinks this nonsense up ?

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Transgender people do not deny their gender.  They are embracing what they know to be true on the inside. Sometimes nature makes a mistake and the outside doesn't match the inside.  Denying their gender would actually be living life appearing as something they are not.

Removing offensive statues has nothing to do with gender identity. It has to do with removing symbols of oppression and slavery.  Symbols that represent a very dark time in our history.   It's not a denial that the history happened. It's just a way to stop celebrating that history.