Community Chat

[jubilant]

Does it help the Native Americans when we invest in their genuine arts and crafts? I often wonder why it is not promoted more. You can't get more American made than this.

[raven-blackbird]

On 4/8/2015 jubilant said:

Does it help the Native Americans when we invest in their genuine arts and crafts? I often wonder why it is not promoted more. You can't get more American made than this.

in some respects it's demeaning........I know that sounds odd, but it is......does it benefit the artist, YES, as it would any artist...... but not the culture, not the people and more importantly not their plight in life, not their daily existence.

you can't take centuries of stripping a culture down to nothing, strip them of what makes them who they are............take their children and "school" the Indian out of them.......herd them onto plots of land, they have no knowledge of and expect them to go on as they did....the government made sure they didn't........Native people were the FIRST welfare state.......and the government made sure they were........buying trinkets from them doesn't rectify the problem.................................raven

[jubilant]

No, I can see that. I don't know what to say. It's pretty darn sad. They should be proud...they gave us so much.

[raven-blackbird]

On 4/8/2015 jubilant said:

No, I can see that. I don't know what to say. It's pretty darn sad. They should be proud...they gave us so much.

it's a complicated issue.........one that took centuries to create and one that won't be solved overnight...............sad..........but true.........................................raven

[scotttie]

On 4/8/2015 raven-blackbird said:

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 raven-blackbird said:

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 jubilant said:

Noel: I was shocked when I read about the $1 per year...surely they get more from it than this???? I wonder if they had any idea at the time what this would lead to? What does the government say it does for the natives? Also I wonder if many of the natives felt it would provide more and better jobs for them so they didn't say much? I guess I need to read a little more. It seems very sad to lose so much. Of course, what the government calls "progress" is not usually what I call progress. Still, I feel a little "torn" on this one and think the least our government could do is stop and listen and try to come to some kind of understanding and show some compassion. It doesn't sound like they have done that.

Yes, I think that is another part of the equation. They have been totally inconsiderate of the Native Hawaiians religious items on the mountain and have been completely disrespectful (according to the article). From what I read, the Hawaiians may have been willing to co-exist but the astronomy group have routinely ignored their concerns.

as government and all big business has always done with native peoples.......I don't blame the Hawaiian people one bit for wanting to leave the union........what good for the people has come of it........their beliefs trashed, their land trashed, their culture trashed.......everything Hawaiian has been exploited to make non-Hawaiians rich.......IF you want to understand EXACTLY what rape is, just look to the treatment of native people by our government.........................raven

raven, do you watch the tv program "Red Road" on the Sundance Channel. It is of course a fictional drama but it does deal with some of the Native people issues in what looks like a somewhat realistic and sympathetic way. (Of course the main character is a criminal but the background and Native peoples and what they are up against is sympathetic...at least to this non-Native).

I haven't seen it........but..........I will look out for it.

IF the citizenship of this country really looked at how native people who first inhabited the lands, the government calls theirs.............the lands you even pay for with your taxes...........how these native people have been lied to, systematically culturally diluted.....in an attempt to limit the "problem" (problem being the people and their culture and their right to those lands) or eradicate it totally........then the citizenship would fully understand why other countries look at the USA with the disgust and mistrust they do................................raven

With all due respect, (and I mean that sincerely and I also am on your side on the Native issue); I don't care much what other countries look at us with. They have their own skeletons to account for.

[raven-blackbird]

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 raven-blackbird said:

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 raven-blackbird said:

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 jubilant said:

Noel: I was shocked when I read about the $1 per year...surely they get more from it than this???? I wonder if they had any idea at the time what this would lead to? What does the government say it does for the natives? Also I wonder if many of the natives felt it would provide more and better jobs for them so they didn't say much? I guess I need to read a little more. It seems very sad to lose so much. Of course, what the government calls "progress" is not usually what I call progress. Still, I feel a little "torn" on this one and think the least our government could do is stop and listen and try to come to some kind of understanding and show some compassion. It doesn't sound like they have done that.

Yes, I think that is another part of the equation. They have been totally inconsiderate of the Native Hawaiians religious items on the mountain and have been completely disrespectful (according to the article). From what I read, the Hawaiians may have been willing to co-exist but the astronomy group have routinely ignored their concerns.

as government and all big business has always done with native peoples.......I don't blame the Hawaiian people one bit for wanting to leave the union........what good for the people has come of it........their beliefs trashed, their land trashed, their culture trashed.......everything Hawaiian has been exploited to make non-Hawaiians rich.......IF you want to understand EXACTLY what rape is, just look to the treatment of native people by our government.........................raven

raven, do you watch the tv program "Red Road" on the Sundance Channel. It is of course a fictional drama but it does deal with some of the Native people issues in what looks like a somewhat realistic and sympathetic way. (Of course the main character is a criminal but the background and Native peoples and what they are up against is sympathetic...at least to this non-Native).

I haven't seen it........but..........I will look out for it.

IF the citizenship of this country really looked at how native people who first inhabited the lands, the government calls theirs.............the lands you even pay for with your taxes...........how these native people have been lied to, systematically culturally diluted.....in an attempt to limit the "problem" (problem being the people and their culture and their right to those lands) or eradicate it totally........then the citizenship would fully understand why other countries look at the USA with the disgust and mistrust they do................................raven

With all due respect, (and I mean that sincerely and I also am on your side on the Native issue); I don't care much what other countries look at us with. They have their own skeletons to account for.

yes they do....................however..............IF we are to view ourselves as coming from a better place then they.........we as a nation, as a government must acknowledge the damage we've done and rectify it........IF we do not, how can we expect other cultures to accept we are there in a humanitarian effort, and not there to exploit what resources they have............until we do that..........this government and it's agents are just hypocrites...............................................raven

[jubilant]

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 raven-blackbird said:

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 raven-blackbird said:

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

On 4/8/2015 jubilant said:

Noel: I was shocked when I read about the $1 per year...surely they get more from it than this???? I wonder if they had any idea at the time what this would lead to? What does the government say it does for the natives? Also I wonder if many of the natives felt it would provide more and better jobs for them so they didn't say much? I guess I need to read a little more. It seems very sad to lose so much. Of course, what the government calls "progress" is not usually what I call progress. Still, I feel a little "torn" on this one and think the least our government could do is stop and listen and try to come to some kind of understanding and show some compassion. It doesn't sound like they have done that.

Yes, I think that is another part of the equation. They have been totally inconsiderate of the Native Hawaiians religious items on the mountain and have been completely disrespectful (according to the article). From what I read, the Hawaiians may have been willing to co-exist but the astronomy group have routinely ignored their concerns.

as government and all big business has always done with native peoples.......I don't blame the Hawaiian people one bit for wanting to leave the union........what good for the people has come of it........their beliefs trashed, their land trashed, their culture trashed.......everything Hawaiian has been exploited to make non-Hawaiians rich.......IF you want to understand EXACTLY what rape is, just look to the treatment of native people by our government.........................raven

raven, do you watch the tv program "Red Road" on the Sundance Channel. It is of course a fictional drama but it does deal with some of the Native people issues in what looks like a somewhat realistic and sympathetic way. (Of course the main character is a criminal but the background and Native peoples and what they are up against is sympathetic...at least to this non-Native).

I haven't seen it........but..........I will look out for it.

IF the citizenship of this country really looked at how native people who first inhabited the lands, the government calls theirs.............the lands you even pay for with your taxes...........how these native people have been lied to, systematically culturally diluted.....in an attempt to limit the "problem" (problem being the people and their culture and their right to those lands) or eradicate it totally........then the citizenship would fully understand why other countries look at the USA with the disgust and mistrust they do................................raven

With all due respect, (and I mean that sincerely and I also am on your side on the Native issue); I don't care much what other countries look at us with. They have their own skeletons to account for.

I agree with this, too. So much persecution in the world everywhere. I look forward to a world one day where there will be no more pain and no more sorrow.

[scotttie]

raven, I get what you are saying. However, I just get tired of the "America is rotten, everybody else is good" line. I realize that's not the point you are making. And, again, I'm with you on the Native issue.

The problem is no matter how many good and wonderful things this country does, no matter how much we try we get no credit.

This is the greatest country on the planet and I just wish we would get a little credit once in a while.

Could we do better? Yes. Are we perfect? No. I just have had it with the constant drumbeat of how rotten Americans are. (No offense to you ).

[raven-blackbird]

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

raven, I get what you are saying. However, I just get tired of the "America is rotten, everybody else is good" line. I realize that's not the point you are making. And, again, I'm with you on the Native issue.

The problem is no matter how many good and wonderful things this country does, no matter how much we try we get no credit.

This is the greatest country on the planet and I just wish we would get a little credit once in a while.

Could we do better? Yes. Are we perfect? No. I just have had it with the constant drumbeat of how rotten Americans are. (No offense to you ).

and I get what you are saying.................trust me I love this nation..........the government, not so much............but the nation, it's people....YES..........and it's because I love it, I want it to do better.......and we're falling short of that.................................raven

[scotttie]

On 4/8/2015 raven-blackbird said:

On 4/8/2015 scotttie said:

raven, I get what you are saying. However, I just get tired of the "America is rotten, everybody else is good" line. I realize that's not the point you are making. And, again, I'm with you on the Native issue.

The problem is no matter how many good and wonderful things this country does, no matter how much we try we get no credit.

This is the greatest country on the planet and I just wish we would get a little credit once in a while.

Could we do better? Yes. Are we perfect? No. I just have had it with the constant drumbeat of how rotten Americans are. (No offense to you ).

and I get what you are saying.................trust me I love this nation..........the government, not so much............but the nation, it's people....YES..........and it's because I love it, I want it to do better.......and we're falling short of that.................................raven

BRAVO raven. Well said!