Community Chat

[suzyQ3]

I just want to thank all of you who took the time to read this article. I hope it was well worth it. If it helps some of you with your personal decision-making, that's good news. If your mind is already set as to how you will proceed, then no harm, no foul.

What keeps bothering me is that we don't know about immunity. I would like to be able to hug my grandchildren again. As I've posted, my daughter had the virus, tested positive. And her husband and the kids were sick and are presumed to have had it as well.

But so far only my daughter has taken the antibodies test, which did show that she has antibodies to the virus. 

But what does that mean? No one knows yet whether it confers immunity and, if so, for how long. That's weighing on me. I want to touch them all.

[QueenDanceALot]

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

I just want to thank all of you who took the time to read this article. I hope it was well worth it. If it helps some of you with your personal decision-making, that's good news. If your mind is already set as to how you will proceed, then no harm, no foul.

What keeps bothering me is that we don't know about immunity. I would like to be able to hug my grandchildren again. As I've posted, my daughter had the virus, tested positive. And her husband and the kids were sick and are presumed to have had it as well.

But so far only my daughter has taken the antibodies test, which did show that she has antibodies to the virus. 

But what does that mean? No one knows yet whether it confers immunity and, if so, for how long. That's weighing on me. I want to touch them all.

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@suzyQ3 

It was very helpful to me, especially today when I'm talking to people who are going back to work soon in our business that was closed in March.  We are working through what the new work space will look like and how we will adjust.  I am not sure I am ready to start back so soon.  It's very precarious.  It's good for me to think things through and this article is helping me to that.

I hope that your family is doing well and that are feeling and doing much better!!

[Drythe]

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@goldensrbest wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@hckynut wrote:

@Trinity11 

Listen to the "experts"? Yes. Follow and do everything they say? No. It has been shown many times over that the some of the "experts", go by the old saying:

"Do what I say, not as I do"

hckynut 🏒

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@hckynut I know of no legitimate scientific expert who is "doing their own thing. " Maybe politicians but not reputable scientists.

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We see the top two people doing their own thing daily.

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As they should.....he is the President of the United States and should continue to lead the country.  Not promote fear.....

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The fact that it is deemed necessary to be tested Daily, wow, makes it seem SERIOUS TO ME.

[Hoovermom]

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@Drythe wrote:

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@goldensrbest wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@hckynut wrote:

@Trinity11 

Listen to the "experts"? Yes. Follow and do everything they say? No. It has been shown many times over that the some of the "experts", go by the old saying:

"Do what I say, not as I do"

hckynut 🏒

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@hckynut I know of no legitimate scientific expert who is "doing their own thing. " Maybe politicians but not reputable scientists.

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We see the top two people doing their own thing daily.

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As they should.....he is the President of the United States and should continue to lead the country.  Not promote fear.....

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The fact that it is deemed necessary to be tested Daily, wow, makes it seem SERIOUS TO ME.

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I didn't say it wasn't serious, but to suggest by the above poster that they shouldn't do their own thing is crazy.

[Drythe]

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Drythe wrote:

@pitdakota 

I have been following, as best as the released information allows, on the ‘nursing home’ numbers. What I have found is a preponderance of Skilled Nursing Facilities.

What have you seen?

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_______________________________________________-

@Drythe, here in our state they have undertaken mandatory testing of all residents in skilled nursing facilities across the state.  There have been a couple of skilled nursing facilities that have had outbreaks here, with the majority occurring from exposure due to employees.

We had a major outbreak in one large skilled nursing facility that also had independent living quarters on the same grounds.  It makes me sick to even think about it, but it originally started with a nursing assistant that kept reporting to work sick and even thinking she had "the virus".  She did get sick at work and was tested and obviously told to isolate.  She was later detained after making trips to the grocery store and doing all kinds of shopping.  Her mother is actually the one that called the public health department to let them know she was going out.  Thank goodness they took her to court and judge had an ankle monitor on her to make sure she stayed inside her home.

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 @pitdakota 

Thank you, I wanted to verify what I've seen in my research.  Almost all being reported as 'Nursing Homes' are Skilled Nursing Facilities.  I know people don't generally know the difference, but in regard to the OP article there was a question about why 'Nursing Homes' were not included.

Of course those in a Skilled Nursing Facility are not likely to be out in the Gen. Pop. so the article wasn't relative to them.

That got me thinking about how many of those 'Nursing Homes' were really SNFs in other area.  I've been following here.  Yes, primarily contagion from staff, and family / visitors despite all the rules and reg. imposed on them, surprise State and Ombudsman surveys and inspection, the level of care in so many is sub-standard.  "Always ask myself, Is it good enough for my Dad?" Sadly, in so many cases the answer is NWIH.

~Be Well - Be Safe~

[Drythe]

@Hoovermom 

Sorry I was not clear, I was agreeing with you.

[suzyQ3]

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@Drythe wrote:

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@Hoovermom wrote:

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@goldensrbest wrote:

---

@Trinity11 wrote:

---

@hckynut wrote:

@Trinity11 

Listen to the "experts"? Yes. Follow and do everything they say? No. It has been shown many times over that the some of the "experts", go by the old saying:

"Do what I say, not as I do"

hckynut 🏒

---

@hckynut I know of no legitimate scientific expert who is "doing their own thing. " Maybe politicians but not reputable scientists.

---

We see the top two people doing their own thing daily.

---

As they should.....he is the President of the United States and should continue to lead the country.  Not promote fear.....

---

The fact that it is deemed necessary to be tested Daily, wow, makes it seem SERIOUS TO ME.

---

I didn't say it wasn't serious, but to suggest by the above poster that they shouldn't do their own thing is crazy.

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@Hoovermom, I wonder whether she meant the not wearing of masks. Some people, including me, see that a bit of slap in the face (no pun intended) as it makes it seem that the advice doesn't apply to them and that they don't feel that they should set an example. After all, now masks are required for staff.

[pitdakota]

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

I'm still confused about how we managed to get through the Hong Kong flu that killed over 100,000 at a time when our population was less than 2/3 the size it is now (200 mil vs. 328 mil today).  We even had Woodstock in the middle of it.

We didn't shut down and stop other people from getting medical care.

You know we have more than 38,000 people dying of auto accidents per year - and over 4.4 million injured seriously enough to require medical attention - many will never fully recover.

So what does that have to do with this?  I'll tell you.  If we reduced the speed limit - and strictly enforced it - signficantly, we could reduce the number and seriousness of injuries and certainly reduce deaths.  We could limit speed on freeways to 30mph and in cities to 10 mph.  Oh you say, that is ridiculous - and certainly way too inconvenient.  What?  You don't care about human life?  You are selfishly wanting to get where you are going quickly? 

Oh wait - you are now going to tell me that this would essentially shut us down and no one would really benefit.

Hello.

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@Isobel Archer, this is one of those things going around on Facebook, that is a great example of crazy stuff out there.

Really?    

Is anyone aware that the Hong Kong flu pandemic occurred 2 flu seasons in a row?  Something that many of these Facebook posts and those that are intent in trying to minimize the impact of covid-19  don't take the time to really understand facts about what they are parroting? 

So those 100,000 deaths occurred from Sept 1968 to  Jan-Feb 1970.  Over a period of 16 months.  The first case was identified in Sept 1968  with cases going on through the 1969-1970 winter season.Hong Kong flu were being transmitted out there in the population in the United States.  

And as is typical with pandemics, the largest number of deaths occurred during the 2nd wave of the pandemic during the months of Nov 1969-Jan. 1970.  

Woodstock took place in August of 1969 when there were no significant number of cases of influenza being actively transmitted since this is usually the way influenza acts.  There is usually very little influenza activity during the months of June, July, and August.   Cases start to pick up mid Sept, and then start really picking up in late Nov into Dec and  fade away by March of the following year.  We were in between 2 different flu seasons with H3N2 or Hong Kong flu getting ready to make a resurgence when Woodstock took place.  Geez, I can think of all kinds of big activities that take place in this country every year in August in between flu seasons.  

There are other biomedical reasons that epidemiologists would not have resorted trying to shut down the economy for the Hong Kong flu pandemic. 

First is that the Hong Kong flu was the influenza protype H3N2.  A previous pandemic of H2N2 had occurred in 1957.  Notice that the neuraminidase of  N2 is the same.  So it was thought the population would have a little protection if infected.  H3N2 in itself was a new influenza virus, but it had the same neuraminidase from the previous pandemic with people alive in 1968 that had contracted H2N2 and therefore some antibody activity geared toward the N2.  

We also had a vaccine for H3N2 in addition to IV antibiotics to treat the seondary bacterial pneumonia that is typical in complicated clinical cases of influenza.

So now compare to covid-19.  In just about 3 months we have over  82,000 deaths.  If we compare that to the H3N2 pandemic, we still have 13 months more to go to compare the number of those deaths.

When this was coming....we had no vaccine, we had no treatment, it is a completely a novel virus with no humans having any type of immunity.  

And comparing deaths related to motor vehicle accidents, heart attacks, cancer, drowning, accidental overdose just isn't comparable. Let alone trying to compare those deaths to those that occur to infectious diseases.

You might want to compare accidental deaths to each other to evaluate the biggest risk for various types of accidental deaths: motor vehicle, motorcycle, all terrain vehicles, drowning, electrocution, etc.  Or compare deaths due to chronic diseases to each other: heart disease, respiratory disease, diabetes, etc.

But it makes no sense to premise an argument on something in comparing deaths due to drowning to those of myocardial infarction.  Deaths related to Covid-19 are due to a disease that is contagious.  

[Drythe]

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

I'm still confused about how we managed to get through the Hong Kong flu that killed over 100,000 at a time when our population was less than 2/3 the size it is now (200 mil vs. 328 mil today).  We even had Woodstock in the middle of it.

We didn't shut down and stop other people from getting medical care.

You know we have more than 38,000 people dying of auto accidents per year - and over 4.4 million injured seriously enough to require medical attention - many will never fully recover.

So what does that have to do with this?  I'll tell you.  If we reduced the speed limit - and strictly enforced it - signficantly, we could reduce the number and seriousness of injuries and certainly reduce deaths.  We could limit speed on freeways to 30mph and in cities to 10 mph.  Oh you say, that is ridiculous - and certainly way too inconvenient.  What?  You don't care about human life?  You are selfishly wanting to get where you are going quickly? 

Oh wait - you are now going to tell me that this would essentially shut us down and no one would really benefit.

Hello.

---

________________________________________________________

@Isobel Archer, this is one of those things going around on Facebook, that is a great example of crazy stuff out there.

Really?    

Is anyone aware that the Hong Kong flu pandemic occurred 2 flu seasons in a row?  Something that many of these Facebook posts and those that are intent in trying to minimize the impact of covid-19  don't take the time to really understand facts about what they are parroting? 

So those 100,000 deaths occurred from Sept 1968 to  Jan-Feb 1970.  Over a period of 16 months.  The first case was identified in Sept 1968  with cases going on through the 1969-1970 winter season.Hong Kong flu were being transmitted out there in the population in the United States.  

And as is typical with pandemics, the largest number of deaths occurred during the 2nd wave of the pandemic during the months of Nov 1969-Jan. 1970.  

Woodstock took place in August of 1969 when there were no significant number of cases of influenza being actively transmitted since this is usually the way influenza acts.  There is usually very little influenza activity during the months of June, July, and August.   Cases start to pick up mid Sept, and then start really picking up in late Nov into Dec and  fade away by March of the following year.  We were in between 2 different flu seasons with H3N2 or Hong Kong flu getting ready to make a resurgence when Woodstock took place.  Geez, I can think of all kinds of big activities that take place in this country every year in August in between flu seasons.  

There are other biomedical reasons that epidemiologists would not have resorted trying to shut down the economy for the Hong Kong flu pandemic. 

First is that the Hong Kong flu was the influenza protype H3N2.  A previous pandemic of H2N2 had occurred in 1957.  Notice that the neuraminidase of  N2 is the same.  So it was thought the population would have a little protection if infected.  H3N2 in itself was a new influenza virus, but it had the same neuraminidase from the previous pandemic with people alive in 1968 that had contracted H2N2 and therefore some antibody activity geared toward the N2.  

We also had a vaccine for H3N2 in addition to IV antibiotics to treat the seondary bacterial pneumonia that is typical in complicated clinical cases of influenza.

So now compare to covid-19.  In just about 3 months we have over  82,000 deaths.  If we compare that to the H3N2 pandemic, we still have 13 months more to go to compare the number of those deaths.

When this was coming....we had no vaccine, we had no treatment, it is a completely a novel virus with no humans having any type of immunity.  

And comparing deaths related to motor vehicle accidents, heart attacks, cancer, drowning, accidental overdose just isn't comparable. Let alone trying to compare those deaths to those that occur to infectious diseases.

You might want to compare accidental deaths to each other to evaluate the biggest risk for various types of accidental deaths: motor vehicle, motorcycle, all terrain vehicles, drowning, electrocution, etc.  Or compare deaths due to chronic diseases to each other: heart disease, respiratory disease, diabetes, etc.

But it makes no sense to premise an argument on something in comparing deaths due to drowning to those of myocardial infarction.  Deaths related to Covid-19 are due to a disease that is contagious.  

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@pitdakota 

Thank you.

Or, we could just “not worry about it and it will go away.”

2 - 2020

[SunSprite]

@suzyQ3  Can't thank you enough for sharing this. I plan on sharing with coworkers and family members. 

It was informative, and done so in a way that it can be understood. 

Very much appreciated!

**ETA: The arrival of this virus coincided with tree pollen  production ramping up (only to be then closely followed by grass pollen!!). I live in the southeast and end of Feb, beginning of March is when our sneezing and coughing in this area really escalates. Almost everyone is sneezing heavily and coughing during our early springs here. I wish the mask advice during that time would have mirrored what they are saying now.....can't help but wonder how those two situations occuring simultaneously helped the virus infect more