Re: Burden of Proof?

momtochloe · ‎11-03-2013

@Bri36 wrote:
Maybe some men will think twice about what they say and how they treat women now.

That is a good thing...

For me I just wanted to highlight @Bri36 post as going forward I do believe men may now think twice before doing something stupid or worse illegal.

What is clouding the issue right now is that you have so many women of different ages/experiences that are all speaking (as they should) but it's impossible to compartmentalize what the outcome should be.

I am glad that finally victims are speaking up/out and that their voices are being heard but my concern is that truly egregious actions may be muted by less severe transgressions.

I am 60 and had my behind grabbed more times than I can count, it's just the way it was back then and to be honest to this day it doesn't offend me as I was never harmed as others have been during the same timeframe. I just want to ensure those that were attacked by an aggressor like Weinstein don't lose the focus they deserve.

Tinkrbl44 · ‎08-23-2010

@momtochloe wrote:
@Bri36 wrote:
Maybe some men will think twice about what they say and how they treat women now.

That is a good thing...
For me I just wanted to highlight @Bri36 post as going forward I do believe men may now think twice before doing something stupid or worse illegal.

What is clouding the issue right now is that you have so many women of different ages/experiences that are all speaking (as they should) but it's impossible to compartmentalize what the outcome should be.

I am glad that finally victims are speaking up/out and that their voices are being heard but my concern is that truly egregious actions may be muted by less severe transgressions.

I am 60 and had my behind grabbed more times than I can count, it's just the way it was back then and to be honest to this day it doesn't offend me as I was never harmed as others have been during the same timeframe. I just want to ensure those that were attacked by an aggressor like Weinstein don't lose the focus they deserve.

@momtochloe

Excellent point, and I think that this is also making employers a bit nervous ..... with them having to be even more careful about making all employees understanding what isn't acceptable behavior.

No employer wants to be sued for doing nothing in a "hostile work environment". They know the laws .... and it's on them to monitor complaints, and take them seriously.

momtochloe · ‎11-03-2013

@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@momtochloe wrote:
@Bri36 wrote:
Maybe some men will think twice about what they say and how they treat women now.

That is a good thing...
For me I just wanted to highlight @Bri36 post as going forward I do believe men may now think twice before doing something stupid or worse illegal.

What is clouding the issue right now is that you have so many women of different ages/experiences that are all speaking (as they should) but it's impossible to compartmentalize what the outcome should be.

I am glad that finally victims are speaking up/out and that their voices are being heard but my concern is that truly egregious actions may be muted by less severe transgressions.

I am 60 and had my behind grabbed more times than I can count, it's just the way it was back then and to be honest to this day it doesn't offend me as I was never harmed as others have been during the same timeframe. I just want to ensure those that were attacked by an aggressor like Weinstein don't lose the focus they deserve.
@momtochloe

Excellent point, and I think that this is also making employers a bit nervous ..... with them having to be even more careful about making all employees understanding what isn't acceptable behavior.

No employer wants to be sued for doing nothing in a "hostile work environment". They know the laws .... and it's on them to monitor complaints, and take them seriously.

Thank you @Tinkrbl44 and I would like to take this a step further as I have been through enough slide show presentations about harassment to last me a lifetime. A simple click that you have watched the video isn't good enough anymore. HR departments need to get tough and focused but most importantly they need to be supported by upper management.

lovescats · ‎03-10-2010

@momtochloe wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@momtochloe wrote:
@Bri36 wrote:
Maybe some men will think twice about what they say and how they treat women now.

That is a good thing...
For me I just wanted to highlight @Bri36 post as going forward I do believe men may now think twice before doing something stupid or worse illegal.

What is clouding the issue right now is that you have so many women of different ages/experiences that are all speaking (as they should) but it's impossible to compartmentalize what the outcome should be.

I am glad that finally victims are speaking up/out and that their voices are being heard but my concern is that truly egregious actions may be muted by less severe transgressions.

I am 60 and had my behind grabbed more times than I can count, it's just the way it was back then and to be honest to this day it doesn't offend me as I was never harmed as others have been during the same timeframe. I just want to ensure those that were attacked by an aggressor like Weinstein don't lose the focus they deserve.
@momtochloe

Excellent point, and I think that this is also making employers a bit nervous ..... with them having to be even more careful about making all employees understanding what isn't acceptable behavior.

No employer wants to be sued for doing nothing in a "hostile work environment". They know the laws .... and it's on them to monitor complaints, and take them seriously.
Thank you @Tinkrbl44 and I would like to take this a step further as I have been through enough slide show presentations about harassment to last me a lifetime. A simple click that you have watched the video isn't good enough anymore. HR departments need to get tough and focused but most importantly they need to be supported by upper management.

both of these statements make me wonder what message was being sent.

cherry · ‎03-09-2010

Abuse is never OK. I'm glad I raised a daughter with enough courage to fight back, even though she was just a teen when it happened to her

Not all girls ,or boys ,have enough self confidence to tell. It's not that they want to be a victim. They are chosen because they aren't strong enough to fight back

The creep that tried it on with my daughter, was old enough to know better, he had grandchildren

He had the nerve to try to say ,

he thought she she wanted him to do it. No one wants anyone to do it. That is the lamest excuse in the world. He never denied doing it

My advise to anyone in this situation is to tell, to scream , to fight back, and sue

This happened to her about 32 years ago. She won her case, and the man involved had his business fold.

Was it too harsh to pay a price like this? I think not. I wonder how many other young girls suffered at his hands ,and he got away with it?

He got what he deserved

Tinkrbl44 · ‎08-23-2010

One thing keeps coming to mind regarding the comments that there must be 'substantial proof" for anyone to be taken seriously.

I recently read that approximately 35% of all murders go unsolved. This is an average figure ... probably higher and lower in certain parts of the country. Thirty five percent! Just because there were no witnesses (or none came forward) for a murder certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen!

Same thing with sexual attacks and harrassment, and all of that ..... sometimes there just aren't any witnesses because the predators are careful ..... that doesn't mean the victims are lying or trying for their ten minutes of "fame". These claims shouldn't be dismissed so easily.

What this means is that the investigators need to get to work and see what they find during the discovery process .... and then take it from there.

It would be nice if more people would give the accusers the benefit of the doubt, and not assume they must be lying. JMO

momtochloe · ‎11-03-2013

@lovescats wrote:
@momtochloe wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@momtochloe wrote:
@Bri36 wrote:
Maybe some men will think twice about what they say and how they treat women now.

That is a good thing...
For me I just wanted to highlight @Bri36 post as going forward I do believe men may now think twice before doing something stupid or worse illegal.

What is clouding the issue right now is that you have so many women of different ages/experiences that are all speaking (as they should) but it's impossible to compartmentalize what the outcome should be.

I am glad that finally victims are speaking up/out and that their voices are being heard but my concern is that truly egregious actions may be muted by less severe transgressions.

I am 60 and had my behind grabbed more times than I can count, it's just the way it was back then and to be honest to this day it doesn't offend me as I was never harmed as others have been during the same timeframe. I just want to ensure those that were attacked by an aggressor like Weinstein don't lose the focus they deserve.
@momtochloe

Excellent point, and I think that this is also making employers a bit nervous ..... with them having to be even more careful about making all employees understanding what isn't acceptable behavior.

No employer wants to be sued for doing nothing in a "hostile work environment". They know the laws .... and it's on them to monitor complaints, and take them seriously.
Thank you @Tinkrbl44 and I would like to take this a step further as I have been through enough slide show presentations about harassment to last me a lifetime. A simple click that you have watched the video isn't good enough anymore. HR departments need to get tough and focused but most importantly they need to be supported by upper management.
both of these statements make me wonder what message was being sent.

@lovescats please forgive me as I am not quite sure of your message here but for me these exercises that companies have their employees go through are strictly CYA which clearly weakens anyone that may be having a problem with a co-worker or manager.

For me, it comes as no surprise when a sexual harassment situation finally bubbles up to the surface and unfortunately so many people have been negatively impacted in the process. Everybody usually knows what/who the problem is but they are usually protected by someone in management. This is what I hope is the turning point in that thought process/way of doing business.

LoveMyBaby · ‎03-09-2010

@cherry

Very well said and I commend your daughter for her courage all those years ago. Bravo to her.

And you're right, not everyone has the wherewithal to strike back, or has a support system to fall back on. Too many different factors for each individual case... and

⚓️