Burden of Proof? - Page 4

Maudlynn · ‎06-21-2017

@LoveMyBaby wrote:
@151949 wrote:
@LoveMyBaby wrote:
I get what you're saying....but usually where there's smoke....

President John F. Kennedy, the vast majority of boomers and their parents still love & idolize him and the Kennedy family to this day. A notorious womanizer from the whole lot of male Kennedy's starting with the father, Joe. Long suffering wives who ALL looked the other way.

I want to believe those days are over but I hardly doubt it. This too, shall pass.
There is a huge difference between a man who has consensual sex with someone he is not married to , who is of age to give consent, and a person who sexually abuses another against their will.
Certainly Monica Lewinsky was not being abused against her will - and never said she was. In the video of her & Clinton she never stopped smiling.
I've never heard any woman claim that JFK forced her against her will either.
There is no law against having an extramarital affair but forcing a woman to put up with groping, kissing or more when she doesn't want to and says no - or drugging her then doing it after she can't resist - that is against the law.
It's the ABUSE of POWER as well as serious character and moral flaws, that is the issue with these claims. And IMHO Monica Lewinsky is a VICTIM, no different than many others intimidated, groomed, NAIVE, etc. by these powerful predatory men. The young girls now being accused of consensual sex, NOT BELIEVED.

There is a long history of this abuse of power and influence on many many young interns, throughout WH history both male and female. Back in the day there was the pages, (high school aged students) preyed upon for s*x. They too could be accused of having 'consensual' relations. Nope, not buying it.

JFK and brothers were considered demigods, and there are numerous incidents documented with all of them. Can you imagine trying to come out accusing (back in the 50's and 60's) the Kennedy's? Plenty books, articles, written of the Kennedy coverups and predatory actions.

Abuse of power involves coercing people into situation they don't want to be in. That was not the case with Monica Lewinsky. I believe she IS a victim, but was not victimized. The relationship was consensual, she was not underage. Anyone preying on high school students is a molester and I'd be interested to hear the WH history that describes this.

151949 · ‎03-09-2010

@LoveMyBaby When I was 21 years old I was perfectly capable and able to know when and how to say No, thank you. I'm not interested. Actually, I knew that by the time I was 15 or 16.

Sadly, women sometimes want to claim to be victims when they aren't victims at all. It isn't the man's fault if the woman is too timid or infatuated to stand up for herself and say no. Men don't read minds. You can't say it's OK when your with him and then later come back and yell abuse.

Mj12 · ‎03-09-2010

He said he'll sue both the reporter for false claims, and MS for improper termination. He was suspended from his morning tv show.

Tinkrbl44 · ‎08-23-2010

@Lila4Now wrote:
There needs to be some sort of proof required. If there is not, people can make false claims against others. Just because a man doesn't have smooth moves, doesn't mean it was an assault. As women, we have to be able to take care of ourselves. We are not helpless fools. Yes, some are assaults, but I think some are just jumping on the bandwagon for 2 minutes of fame.

@Lila4Now @Oznell

Are you kidding? Since when does coming forward about a crime give anyone any positive "fame"? Since when is being victimized a chance for "fame"?

As for "proof" .... not every crime commited is done when there are witnesses present. Example .... Does that mean if a man rapes or murders a woman, and there are no witnesses present, then it really didn't happen?

This is what INVESTIGATIONS are for. Oftentimes, when a man is accused of predatory behavior, there are others he has done this to.

People talk. It's not that difficult for investigators to ask around and find "hearsay" which may or may not be true ..... and they can then take it from there. It's not that hard to find a pattern of behavior with the guilty ones.

When ONE woman accused Bill Cosby of his disgusting behavior, a lot of people just dismissed it. They thought Bill wouldn't do that .... even though they'd never met the guy and had no idea what he was really like as a person. By the time the number of accusers had jumped to SIXTY women who didn't know each other, with a distinct pattern of behavior, it was pretty hard for people to still pretend that "Bill is a nice guy; he would never do something like that ...."

Tinkrbl44 · ‎08-23-2010

@Meowingkitty wrote:
@Plaid Pants2 wrote:
This is going to be an unpopular thing to say, but I really don't care.

If I am to be perfectly honest, I am getting tired of hearing that every day someone else has been accused of "inappropriate behavior".

"Thirty years ago Mr. So-and-so brushed up against me as we were passing in the hall! He assaulted me!"

Give me a break!

That's not assault.

Now, for those who are genuinely assaulted, yes, I feel for them.

But don't go throwing around accusations about something that is decades old, simply because it's the popular and "in" thing to do right now.

It's getting real old, real fast.

The shock value has worn off.

Now, bash away.
I agree, just because someone touched my shoulder or hand doesn’t make it assault

@Meowingkitty @PlaidPants2

Did I miss something in the news, or were you just giving examples?

Is there some women somewhere trying to make a big deal about being "brushed up against"?

I have only seen accusations about previous behavior that was definitely creepy ..... or threatening one's job or earnings if they didn't submit to unwelcome advances. I doubt most journalists are willing to report non-issues.

LoveMyBaby · ‎03-09-2010

@Maudlynn

Its all there on the internet. If you really want to have a crummy afternoon, and read about the disgraceful behavior in our government officials, feel free to research the history of this. Some even say they discontinued the congressional page program for 'safety' reasons, some say 'budget'. You be the judge.

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Tinkrbl44 · ‎08-23-2010

@151949 wrote:
@LoveMyBaby When I was 21 years old I was perfectly capable and able to know when and how to say No, thank you. I'm not interested. Actually, I knew that by the time I was 15 or 16.
Sadly, women sometimes want to claim to be victims when they aren't victims at all. It isn't the man's fault if the woman is too timid or infatuated to stand up for herself and say no. Men don't read minds. You can't say it's OK when your with him and then later come back and yell abuse.

@151949

Well, many of us know how to say "no thanks" .... but that's ONLY effective if the man is a gentleman and will take no for an answer. That's not what's happened in most cases in the news.

What about the predators who don't take no for an answer, and are detemined to have their way with a woman when she's definitely NOT interested?

Clearly, it's not rape or sexual assault if the activity was CONSENSUAL.

151949 · ‎03-09-2010

@Tinkrbl44 ITA with you. but this poster named lovemybaby says that even when the sex is consensual that it is abuse in some cases, and I disagree with her. She says as an example that Monica Lewansky was abused by Bill Clinton and I say she was 21 years old and never claimed she did not consent.

suzyQ3 · ‎03-09-2010

@zitawins wrote:
And let us not forget that there are women predators out there, too. It's not just men who are making assaults, verbal or physical. There are also women in high positions who can make or break a man's career simply because the men disagreed with them or rebuffed advances.

I don't believe in revisionist offences. What happened forty years ago has little to do with today's laws and mores. As a culture, yes, women have been repressed, but that is no reason to be part of what is definitely a witch hunt. Women today are much too eager to point fingers and destroy lives.

@zitawins, I say fine to your first paragraph. Anyone who abuses their power and harasses another person should be held accountable. Who says differently? But the FACT is that it is predominantly men.

I say NO to your second paragraph. Some things rise above an era's laws and mores. And no one here is discussing "repression," although IMO it is still active.

It has never been okay to abuse people. To use the excuse that things were different back then is ludicrous. Of course we have to abide by statutes of limitations.

~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

LoveMyBaby · ‎03-09-2010

First of all, predators KNOW who to go after. And that's great that you can and could defend and deflect the attention. There's many more victims that can't. This is their voice.

And if bringing this out in the open, saves just one young girl or boy from an UNWANTED but coerced s*xual "interaction" this will be a a GREAT thing. I really really dislike when there is victim shaming. Period.

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