Burden of Proof?

Oznell · ‎11-08-2014

Just heard that Harold Ford Junior has been fingered for inappropriate conduct by his place of employment, which I think is Merrill Lynch but not sure.

I'm sorry, because back in the days when I still occasionally tuned in Morning Joe, the former congressman Ford was a regular, and was a "nice" guy. Everyone liked him, he seemed kind and generous to colleagues.

So, with someone that you would never have suspected of untoward behavior, what is your burden of proof. Will you automatically believe if the accuser reported it to one or more friends? Do you need a higher level of proof?

Just turning this over in my mind, and wondering what others think. Especially those of you who might be lawyers or consitutional specialists, are you worried that innocents will be swept up in the tsunami of accusations?

Lila4Now · ‎08-13-2011

There needs to be some sort of proof required. If there is not, people can make false claims against others. Just because a man doesn't have smooth moves, doesn't mean it was an assault. As women, we have to be able to take care of ourselves. We are not helpless fools. Yes, some are assaults, but I think some are just jumping on the bandwagon for 2 minutes of fame.

LoveMyBaby · ‎03-09-2010

I get what you're saying....but usually where there's smoke....

President John F. Kennedy, the vast majority of boomers and their parents still love & idolize him and the Kennedy family to this day. A notorious womanizer from the whole lot of male Kennedy's starting with the father, Joe. Long suffering wives who ALL looked the other way.

I want to believe those days are over but I hardly doubt it. This too, shall pass.

⚓️

NorthernLights · ‎07-01-2016

There's almost a witch hunt hysteria tinge to all of this it's gotten so crazy. You can't get back your reputation if you're wrongly accused. In theory you should, but it's really hard to unring a bell. The most serious accusations should be litigated in court.

As for the rest I find I'm uncomfortable judging actions in the past with the opinions of what is right or wrong of the present. I'd like to see a focus put on what behavior do we expect today and moving forward. People who have had experiences could make clear what they didn't like or appreciate and how others can comport themselves to not hurt others. I'd rather see a more proactive and learning approach to bad behavior than this finger pointing 'me too' business.

jeanlake · ‎03-10-2010

Substantial burden of proof needed. False accusations should be met with harsh penalties.

"I took a walk in the woods and came out taller than the trees." Henry David Thoreau

151949 · ‎03-09-2010

@LoveMyBaby wrote:
I get what you're saying....but usually where there's smoke....

President John F. Kennedy, the vast majority of boomers and their parents still love & idolize him and the Kennedy family to this day. A notorious womanizer from the whole lot of male Kennedy's starting with the father, Joe. Long suffering wives who ALL looked the other way.

I want to believe those days are over but I hardly doubt it. This too, shall pass.

There is a huge difference between a man who has consensual sex with someone he is not married to , who is of age to give consent, and a person who sexually abuses another against their will.

Certainly Monica Lewinsky was not being abused against her will - and never said she was. In the video of her & Clinton she never stopped smiling.

I've never heard any woman claim that JFK forced her against her will either.

There is no law against having an extramarital affair but forcing a woman to put up with groping, kissing or more when she doesn't want to and says no - or drugging her then doing it after she can't resist - that is against the law.

chessylady · ‎05-01-2010

Burden of proof applies in a court of law. Employers are free to fire whom they choose. In years past, if a woman accused a man of sexual misconduct SHE would lose her job because he was usually at a higher rank in the company and not easily replaced. Now high ranking people can just deny it happened even if 7-14 women accuse him, even if they were children when it happened and he stays in his job. Justice will prevail.

Plaid Pants2 · ‎03-14-2015

This is going to be an unpopular thing to say, but I really don't care.

If I am to be perfectly honest, I am getting tired of hearing that every day someone else has been accused of "inappropriate behavior".

"Thirty years ago Mr. So-and-so brushed up against me as we were passing in the hall! He assaulted me!"

Give me a break!

That's not assault.

Now, for those who are genuinely assaulted, yes, I feel for them.

But don't go throwing around accusations about something that is decades old, simply because it's the popular and "in" thing to do right now.

It's getting real old, real fast.

The shock value has worn off.

Now, bash away.

Oznell · ‎11-08-2014

You are all raising good points. I find myself torn-- it is a very good thing if those reporting real abuse are speaking up for themselves, and wouldn't have felt they had the support to do it in the past.

But @NorthernLights, you are being very discerning, I think, and your "witch hunt" comment should be a forewarning. I'd hate to see us go in the direction of the Salem witch trials-- history tells us over and over, that things like that can happen...

My feeling is also that we must be careful...

proudlyfromNJ · ‎05-01-2010

I do have to say it makes a difference if woman are groped, talked bad to, forced against their will, etc. I worked for a "party" company for many years when I was young. Everything that I saw and heard(friends) and myself, was consensual. In my opinion...a big difference.

So what happened with all these accusations? Don't know, but if many people made them against one person, hmmm.