Community Chat

[Mominohio]

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@Shanus wrote:

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@Mominohio wrote:

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@Shanus wrote:

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@I am still oxox wrote:

The few that were not there were screaming theiir heads off in the ladies room the town pool, what ever happned to parents controlling their kids

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That may have ended w/ the Boomer generation. I asked my son once to tell my 5 yr. old granddaughter to "zip it" in a restaurant & he replied that he and DIL work all week and at night & weekends is only time they see the kids and don't want to be always punishing them. I said, "I see". So I yanked her up and we had a nice talk outside about restaurant rules and that she wasn't going back in unless she was sure she was willing to be quiet and stay in her seat.

She looked up at me and asked if I was that mean to her Daddy when he was little. I said, "Yes, and look how nicely he behaves in a restaurant". She had no comeback for that. 

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@Shanus

This was the kind of  bunk we heard from my brother when he was raising his kids. 

That and constant talk about not curtailing their creativity, spirit etc. 

It's all a cop out because they don't want to be the 'bad guy'. And anyone who has ever raised a child knows that some days, you just have to be the 'bad guy' and little Johnny or Suzie is not going to be happy about it.

I salute you for taking control. Kids respect adults who maintain order.

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Thanks. When the 2 Girls are with me, they are angels because they know Pop Pop and I don't put up w/ cwap! There's no stalling at bedtime when they sleep over, no fighting over which tv show to watch because they know we'll immediately turn the tv off & no one watches.

I hate to make this comparison, but having kids is a lot like all the dogs I've had. They need rules, are happier when it's clear who is the alpha, feel secure knowing someone is in charge and no 2nd chances....Bad behavior is never rewarded or ignored.

My granddaughters respect us and run to us when we visit or they come to our house. They are not afraid...They just know what's expected of them & the consequences. Isn't that what most adults already know?

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@Shanus

This used to be the most general thought on child rearing, but over the years, too many 'experts' and too many books (actually MOST just people looking to make a buck selling something) have destroyed the common sense approach to child rearing.

I'm sure you will get some hits for the dog comments, but it is true. Any being that is dependent on an adult needs structure, boundaries, instruction, and love. People who don't give kids structure and boundaries are failing them terribly, but it is now seen as incorrect to point that out, as it is to do it!

[Noel7]

"Lewd Wicked Children"

In 1695, Robert Russel wrote in A Little Book for Children and Youth (subtitled Being Good Counsel and Instructions for Your Children, Earnestly Exhorting Them to Resist the Temptation of the Devil...):

"... I find by sad Experience how the Towns and Streets are filled with lewd wicked Children, and many Children as they have played about the Streets have been heard to curse and swear and call one another Nick-names, and it would grieve ones Heart to hear what bawdy and filthy Communications proceeds from the Mouths of such..."

[Mominohio]

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@stevieb wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@Sushismom wrote:

I live in a large city (1,000,000+) and don't see unruly kids that often. Once in a while, yes. But the majority of parents seem to be good ones.

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I agree for the most part kids are fun and I rarely if ever encounter screeching kids. My grandson is very well behaved in restaurants.  He is almost 5 and was taught to behave from early childhood. I can take him anywhere and I am very proud of what a good job my daughter has done..

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What cities do the two of you live in. I'll think about relocating because i see far more unruly and undiscilned or unparented chidren than I ever have before...

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I'm thinking it must be that place that has unicorns and rainbows everyday!

[Noel7]

"Dogs at Their Heels and Other Evidence of Dissolute Habits"

In a speech to the House of Commons on February 28, 1843, Anthony Ashley Cooper, the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, ranted:

"...a fearful multitude of untutored savages... [boys] with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits...[girls who] drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody...the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly."

[suzyQ3]

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@Mominohio wrote:

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

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@Mominohio wrote:

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@chrystaltree wrote:

It's school vacation and stores like Target always have familes with children who act like children.  It sounds like you might need your hearing checked.  Some older people become sensitive to sound but there are coping mechanisms.

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No, I would bet it isn't the hearing, because older people loose the ability to hear higher pitched sounds (which is what child whining is...higher in pitch).

People today will not control their children in public, will not take the work, time and effort to remove them from public places when they are throwing tantrums, whining and otherwise causing disturbances. They can't get their heads out of their phones or their posteriors to understand that there is a baseline of proper public behavior, even for young children, and when they cannot comply, they need to be removed to the car, home, the park or a nap. 

This idea that we have to accept rude public behavior from people of all ages is the reason it persists. The more we accept it, excuse it, and shame those that expect better, the worse it will get.

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@Mominohio, any proclamation that begins with "people today" tends to be a simplified generalization. And yours here is no exception.

It's not only incorrect but also a slap in the fact at all those parents who came after you who do their very best to raise kind and considerate human beings.

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I'm not going to split hairs with you as by the number of hearts on my original post of this, there is indication that there is a major agreement with it. 

Pick away, but it doesn't change the truth about what people are putting up with daily from people who don't have any manners, common sense, or respect for others. 

Posting in general terms is what one often does on a forum such as this. If we stop to qualify and quantify every single sentence, idea or thought, some will still find a reason to argue. It seems enough other people understood the 'some/many' that was insinuated in the post, as I'm sure you did as well, but wish to argue instead. 

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Oh, say it ain't so, @Mominohio. You didn't just pull the hearts card, did you?

I'll try to be more popular next time. How about "We're all going to heck in a handbasket." Or "Parents/kids today...just not the way it was in my day."

[YorkieonmyPillow]

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@Mominohio wrote:

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@Shanus wrote:

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@Mominohio wrote:

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@Shanus wrote:

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@I am still oxox wrote:

The few that were not there were screaming theiir heads off in the ladies room the town pool, what ever happned to parents controlling their kids

---

That may have ended w/ the Boomer generation. I asked my son once to tell my 5 yr. old granddaughter to "zip it" in a restaurant & he replied that he and DIL work all week and at night & weekends is only time they see the kids and don't want to be always punishing them. I said, "I see". So I yanked her up and we had a nice talk outside about restaurant rules and that she wasn't going back in unless she was sure she was willing to be quiet and stay in her seat.

She looked up at me and asked if I was that mean to her Daddy when he was little. I said, "Yes, and look how nicely he behaves in a restaurant". She had no comeback for that. 

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@Shanus

This was the kind of  bunk we heard from my brother when he was raising his kids. 

That and constant talk about not curtailing their creativity, spirit etc. 

It's all a cop out because they don't want to be the 'bad guy'. And anyone who has ever raised a child knows that some days, you just have to be the 'bad guy' and little Johnny or Suzie is not going to be happy about it.

I salute you for taking control. Kids respect adults who maintain order.

---

Thanks. When the 2 Girls are with me, they are angels because they know Pop Pop and I don't put up w/ cwap! There's no stalling at bedtime when they sleep over, no fighting over which tv show to watch because they know we'll immediately turn the tv off & no one watches.

I hate to make this comparison, but having kids is a lot like all the dogs I've had. They need rules, are happier when it's clear who is the alpha, feel secure knowing someone is in charge and no 2nd chances....Bad behavior is never rewarded or ignored.

My granddaughters respect us and run to us when we visit or they come to our house. They are not afraid...They just know what's expected of them & the consequences. Isn't that what most adults already know?

---

@Shanus

This used to be the most general thought on child rearing, but over the years, too many 'experts' and too many books (actually MOST just people looking to make a buck selling something) have destroyed the common sense approach to child rearing.

I'm sure you will get some hits for the dog comments, but it is true. Any being that is dependent on an adult needs structure, boundaries, instruction, and love. People who don't give kids structure and boundaries are failing them terribly, but it is now seen as incorrect to point that out, as it is to do it!

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  @Mominohio  Totally agree with you, it is part of our obligation as parents to teach and show our children how to behave; what is acceptable and what is not.

[Mominohio]

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@stevieb wrote:

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@Shanus wrote:

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@I am still oxox wrote:

The few that were not there were screaming theiir heads off in the ladies room the town pool, what ever happned to parents controlling their kids

---

That may have ended w/ the Boomer generation. I asked my son once to tell my 5 yr. old granddaughter to "zip it" in a restaurant & he replied that he and DIL work all week and at night & weekends is only time they see the kids and don't want to be always punishing them. I said, "I see". So I yanked her up and we had a nice talk outside about restaurant rules and that she wasn't going back in unless she was sure she was willing to be quiet and stay in her seat.

She looked up at me and asked if I was that mean to her Daddy when he was little. I said, "Yes, and look how nicely he behaves in a restaurant". She had no comeback for that. 

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And see, I think the problem here is a parent supposedly viewing the job of imparting lessons in reasonable behavior as 'punishment'... Huh...

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This reminds of something that happened a few years ago.

I had a converstation with another mom when my son was in middle school, and we were talking about kids and I used the word 'punishment'. She was horribly taken back, and said that they chose to describe it as 'consequences' for something not done, or done wrong. 

Bottom line, the result/effect is the same thing. If any of us do wrong or fail to do what we are supposed to/need to, there is often a bad consequence that in fact, punishes us in some way or other, even if it is only our own remorse, or the loss of something for not doing what was required, etc.

It's like we can call broccoli 'chocolate' all we want, but it isn't going to change the way the green stuff tastes!

But I do agree with you @stevieb, imparting lessons doesn't have to be or shouldn't be seen as punishing. It is teaching, if done properly and consistently. 

[Noel7]

Closing with my favorite:

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”

-- Socrates

[YorkieonmyPillow]

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@Mominohio wrote:

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@stevieb wrote:

---

@Shanus wrote:

---

@I am still oxox wrote:

The few that were not there were screaming theiir heads off in the ladies room the town pool, what ever happned to parents controlling their kids

---

That may have ended w/ the Boomer generation. I asked my son once to tell my 5 yr. old granddaughter to "zip it" in a restaurant & he replied that he and DIL work all week and at night & weekends is only time they see the kids and don't want to be always punishing them. I said, "I see". So I yanked her up and we had a nice talk outside about restaurant rules and that she wasn't going back in unless she was sure she was willing to be quiet and stay in her seat.

She looked up at me and asked if I was that mean to her Daddy when he was little. I said, "Yes, and look how nicely he behaves in a restaurant". She had no comeback for that. 

---

And see, I think the problem here is a parent supposedly viewing the job of imparting lessons in reasonable behavior as 'punishment'... Huh...

---

This reminds of something that happened a few years ago.

I had a converstation with another mom when my son was in middle school, and we were talking about kids and I used the word 'punishment'. She was horribly taken back, and said that they chose to describe it as 'consequences' for something not done, or done wrong. 

Bottom line, the result/effect is the same thing. If any of us do wrong or fail to do what we are supposed to/need to, there is often a bad consequence that in fact, punishes us in some way or other, even if it is only our own remorse, or the loss of something for not doing what was required, etc.

It's like we can call broccoli 'chocolate' all we want, but it isn't going to change the way the green stuff tastes!

But I do agree with you @stevieb, imparting lessons doesn't have to be or shouldn't be seen as punishing. It is teaching, if done properly and consistently. 

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Discipline.

It's not a bad thing.

Teaching manners and consideration of others.

[Mominohio]

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@Bri36 wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong for assuming - but since this thread has been taken off topic by discussing children who have medical issues or other disabilities, that a parent of such a child would make some attempt at soothing their child and not just ignoring them.   That doesn't appear to be the situation in many of these instances when children are misbehaving in public.  Parents seem oblivious to their children.  

We've all seen seen children who are misbehaving for any number of reasons.   The difference is the way the parents handle it.   

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@Bri36

Great point. I know when a kid is really acting up and a parent is dealing with it (even if I don't agree with the method), I'm much more willing to tolerate the disturbance, simply because I can see that there is a 'work in progress'. It's when there isn't any work being done, that I loose patience. And that is directed to the parent, not the kid. 

My dad used to have a saying when kids were arguing, acting out, and misbehaving. He would say 'The kid is smarter than the parent'. And he was right. The kid had control of the situation, and that isn't a good thing.