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Esteemed Contributor
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Registered: ‎02-19-2014

If you say you don't believe the CDC or medical data, you can't turn around and try to use any interpretation of medical data to support your views. Sorry.

When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
"Power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,844
Registered: ‎02-19-2014

@pitdakota wrote:

@Greeneyedlady21  The term herd immunity dates back to the early 1900s so it has been around quite a long time and has been something that has born out to work time and time again.

 

If not for herd immunity smallpox would never have been eradicated.  Suffice it to say that many that are here today would not be if not for trying to achieve herd immunity with smallpox vaccinations.  

 

And @Porcelain, the term free riders has been around for some time as well.  


@pitdakota Agreed. The free rider problem applies to any public solution to an issue. It always has to be accounted for and planned around.

When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
"Power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr
Honored Contributor
Posts: 13,268
Registered: ‎05-01-2010

@LipstickDiva wrote:

Oh my goodness. So many conspiracy theories still being thrown about.  It's amazing and scary at the same time.

 

It's always a "friend's relative" or someone a "friend knows" who was listed as having died from Covid but didn't really.  This little bit of misinformation has been going around for just about a year now.  It was said once and just keeps getting repeated over and over as a fact.  

 


@LipstickDiva  Yes, you're right. I've been reading the exact story since all this started. Each claiming it as their 'friend'. They all must have the same friend!

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,636
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Humans are animals.  We're animated.  That's why. I don't care one way or another.  We are sometimes animals in a herd. 

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@Porcelain wrote:

If you say you don't believe the CDC or medical data, you can't turn around and try to use any interpretation of medical data to support your views. Sorry.


@Porcelainthis website needs to shut down the conspiracy theorists. 

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 7,844
Registered: ‎02-19-2014

@agb80 wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

If you say you don't believe the CDC or medical data, you can't turn around and try to use any interpretation of medical data to support your views. Sorry.


@Porcelainthis website needs to shut down the conspiracy theorists. 


I wish. They would have to change the rules. Spreading conspiracy theories or medical misinformation that can cause harm is not against the rules here. There's no rule about it at all. So the only way to counteract that kind of harmful speech is with more speech as a counterbalance.

When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
"Power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr
Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,970
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@gardenman wrote:

@pitdakota wrote:

@Jersey Born wrote:

@Porcelain - People who do not want to take the experimental inoculations against one or more COVID-19 illness symptoms (and not against SARS-CoV-2 infection or SARS-CoV-2 infection) are not seeking a free ride off the backs of others, because the COVID-19 inoculations will not protect the un-injected people from infection with the actual virus, and instead, the inoculations may turn the injected people into asymptomatic carriers of SARS-CoV-2, which will not help anyone who is not injected.  

 

I am not grateful to anyone receiving a COVID-19 shot, but I sure do pray for every one of them, that they do not suffer severe side effects from the mRNA (or the just-approved adenovirus-vectored DNA) injections or develop ADE. Antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) is a very real concern for medical researchers, and there is a very real possibility that those injected could experience a worsening of lung infiltration with the SARS-CoV-2 virus upon actual viral challenge.

 

So far, 1,095 deaths from the COVID-19 shots have been reported to VAERS, and the symptom onset descriptions are disturbing. Also upsetting is this article in the New York Times - "As Millions Get Shots, F.D.A. Struggles to Get Safety Monitoring System Running". The BEST system that was supposed to be functional is not capturing the injection injury data at all.  I find that unacceptable and uncaring.


_____________________________________________________

 

One can say that 1,095 deaths have occurred after vaccination but one absolutely cannot say that 1,095 deaths occurred due to Covid-19 vaccination. 

 

All healthcare providers are required to report any death after vaccination. 

 

I know of one specific example that is in this data.  A  friend of ours was diagnosed with early onset dementia some time ago.  She was in a long term care facility and not doing well with advancing problems of swallowing, etc.  Our state had a rigorous program to vaccinate all individuals in long term care so she was vaccinated.

 

However, she died within 72 hours of receiving the vaccine.  She did aspirate and had a chest x-ray that documented aspiration pneumonia which is a leading cause of death in those with dementia.  Aspiration pneumonia secondary to Alzheimer's is cause of death on her death certificate.  But since her death occurred after vaccination and she was in a long term care facility, her death was entered into  VAERS. 

 

 


Yeah, reported deaths are a bit unreliable. If you dug deep into the records you would find my grandmother listed as a cancer-related death. Did she have cancer? No. Why was she listed as such? The doc who filled out her death certificate saw that she'd had a mastectomy and therefore assumed she'd had breast cancer. (She'd had the mastectomy due to cysts instead.) She'd never had cancer, but since cancer was listed as a cause of death, in the official records she is a cancer-related death. 

 

We've seen similar instances in the Covid-era. Accident victims who also tested positive for Covid were listed as Covid deaths despite dying in an accident that was completely unrelated to Covid. Would they have died of Covid if they didn't die in the accident first? Probably not. But they died and they had Covid, so they're a Covid-related death.

 

I have hemophilia. Whatever kills me down the road, bleeding-related or not, hemophilia will be listed as a cause of death. I could get struck by lightning and hemophilia would be listed among the causes of death. It's how the system works. 

 


___________________________________________________

 

@gardenman, there will always be some problems with records of any kind.  No surprise there are also problems with recording marriage licenses at times, just as there are sometimes errors made on recording causes of death on death certificates, or mistakes made in reporting of unemployment numbers.

 

But to claim these instances exist on a large scale across all points of time is just not correct.   

 

It still remains that no one can nor should they claim that over 1,000 deaths have occurred in this country due to covid-19 vaccinations.  And then when it is explained how the system works, well then it is that the deaths are still largely under reported, a study yada yada yada.   The sole purpose is to misrepresent and distort information to push a particular agenda at a particular point in time.

 

The data needs to speak,.  All deaths that occur post vaccination are to be reported by health care facilities or health care personnel.  They will then investigate those deaths to examine cause of death and if there is any association with the vaccine.  It takes them a while to do this, but those individuals are really very interested in knowing what the data tells them and making sure there are not patterns that are being determined by the data.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


* Freedom has a taste the protected will never know *
Respected Contributor
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@Jersey Born, and not one single word of that substantiates that over 1,000 people have died due to covid-19 vaccinations just because that is the number reported to VAERS. 

 

One can say deaths related to vaccinations are largely under reported.  One can say deaths related to vaccinations are largely over reported. 

 

Fact is it is speculation when one is just reporting numbers directly from VAERS.   

 

In fact, I could make an argument that with such heightened awareness due to the pandemic and proliferative media attention around the covid vaccine, that deaths that occurred after vaccination are far more likely to be reported now than any other time or with any other type of vaccine.  

 

One cannot connect the dots from a study at Harvard related to under reporting unless it specifically contains data related to covid vaccination.  This is one thing you learn when doing a program of research.  You cannot just say that because x  is known then y must be true. That is not acceptable in research and it takes a study to explore the relationships between 2 different phenomena.  

 

It is highly unlikely that the Harvard study would be applicable in this setting with the world's attention on a "new" vaccine developed for a novel virus not known to mankind before 2019  that isresponsible for a global pandemic.  But one could do a study to build on that to explore the phenomena to see if it did exist and if so what were the relationships.

 

Until then, one cannot associate findings from a previous study and apply them to numbers that you are told not to count as accurate to say the number is probably higher.  

 

So it still stands that there is no credible backing to the statement that 1,095 deaths have occurred due to covid-19 vaccinations just because they have been reported to VAERS.  

 


* Freedom has a taste the protected will never know *
Honored Contributor
Posts: 12,898
Registered: ‎07-09-2011

Re: Herd Immunity

[ Edited ]

@agb80 wrote:

More than 265 million people in 108 countries have been vaccinated forcovidd-19, countries that have access tohydroxychloroquinee I might add.  Medical experts who have studied vaccines as their profession not just in the U. S. but around the world have not risen up demanding that the public listen to them as this is all one big conspiracy theory. 

 

Instead, it is being said that if just 1% of those vaccinated succumbed to the many theories supposedly attributed to the vaccines, it could not be hidden from public view. People who want to continue to read medical abstracts and copy that information here are not doing anyone any favors. 

 

 


@agb80 

 

I agree with you on this point.

 

The cut and paste method is redundant, and without context is not reliable. Without reference, it also implies that what is pasted is actually the words of the poster. 

 

If the point is communication, it would be more helpful if posters would just insert the link to the text, or give the source for it rather than copy and paste it here.

"Animals are not my whole world, but they have made my world whole" ~ Roger Caras
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Posts: 12,898
Registered: ‎07-09-2011

@pitdakota 

 

Thank you.

 

Correlation is not Causation 🙂

 

"Animals are not my whole world, but they have made my world whole" ~ Roger Caras