TV and Movies

[LoriLori]

The grooming.  Spending all that time grooming them and their families and then ditching them for a younger boy.  OMG.  There's a ton of them out there.  He just happened to be famous and have the money and the amusement park and a theater and all those locks and codes leading to his inner sanctum but it's nauseating to think how many kids will be molested today, tonight.  

[Pearlee]

What surprised me is how much the kids wanted to stay with him, even with the abuse.  And say they loved him.  Didn't they realize they were being abused?  Only the one said he got a bad feeling in his stomach when Michael made him watch graphic X-rated movies, and the 7 yr old didn't like at least some of the stuff he had to do with Michael (I won't be graphic) but they both kept wanting to be with him rather than their parents.  

[LoriLori]

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@Angels&Ladybugs wrote:

But anyone with an open mind can see the screaming evidence that he did these things.  He never slept with a woman or adult male in his life.  Only boys.  He only wanted boys and when they grew older he threw them away and replaced them.  Classic.

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Not true. Many people with "open minds" find the supposed facts presented suspect. And how on earth does anyone know if/whom he slept with in his life? 

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He never slept with his wife Debbie Rowe, he made her sign away the rights to see her kids -- thinking about "Blanket" makes my stomach churn although he's the one that was not from Debbie Rowe.  Money  money money, she was after money too, how could he do that? 

There is no reason to think he had sex with Lisa Marie.  He was not interested in girls. or women.  She will not discuss him.

You didn't watch the show.  Those who watched can spot those who did not.

[LoriLori]

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@Pearlee wrote:

What surprised me is how much the kids wanted to stay with him, even with the abuse.  And say they loved him.  Didn't they realize they were being abused?  Only the one said he got a bad feeling in his stomach when Michael made him watch graphic X-rated movies, and the 7 yr old didn't like at least some of the stuff he had to do with Michael (I won't be graphic) but they both kept wanting to be with him rather than their parents.  

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Maybe Oprah can shed some light on that considering she experienced incest. 

That is one of the most credible things for me that they were saying -- that they liked it.  Again, grooming.  Something I think (and hope) few of us have ever heard described.  Makes perfect sense.  They thought it was normal.  He made them feel so very special.  He brought them on stage.  And then backstage.  A secret marriage to the biggest pop star in the world.  And then back doored them.  What does a seven-year-old know about how life should work?

And then the garden variety, the not-biggest-pop-star-in-the-world,  the ones -- I know people who have been there:  If you tell I will kill your mother.  If you tell I will kill your father.  If you tell I will take you away and you will never see your friends and family again.  

[VaBelle35]

The clip I saw of the Oprah interview has her asking the questions people are asking after watching it.

[chessylady]

I have a friend who was molested by her father. When she told her mother and sister after he died, they did not believe her. She made a choice to continue her relationship with them despite their disbelief. I find that so sad. People cannot discuss what happened to them on someone else's time table. Often people who tell are not believed.

[Angels&Ladybugs]

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@LoriLori wrote:

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@Angels&Ladybugs wrote:

But anyone with an open mind can see the screaming evidence that he did these things.  He never slept with a woman or adult male in his life.  Only boys.  He only wanted boys and when they grew older he threw them away and replaced them.  Classic.

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Not true. Many people with "open minds" find the supposed facts presented suspect. And how on earth does anyone know if/whom he slept with in his life? 

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He never slept with his wife Debbie Rowe, he made her sign away the rights to see her kids -- thinking about "Blanket" makes my stomach churn although he's the one that was not from Debbie Rowe.  Money  money money, she was after money too, how could he do that? 

There is no reason to think he had sex with Lisa Marie.  He was not interested in girls. or women.  She will not discuss him.

You didn't watch the show.  Those who watched can spot those who did not.

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Not true again. My goodness there is quite a bit of presumption here. From "He never slept with a woman or adult male in his life" to telling me what I have watched. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but not to presume that their opinions are facts. Everything presented in a documentary is not a fact, particularly when the other side to an event can no longer be told. It is most certainly a horrible topic and I wasn't there so I don't "know" anything for sure, nor will I share my opinion. I simply am pointing out that presumption does not equal fact. Your spotter is off because I have watched, this and many other programs concerning this issue. JMO.

[Nataliesgramma]

I think what made them very believable for me was the way they still talked lovingly about Michael. They are still struggling with dealing with it as abuse.

They both said in the Oprah interview that having sons opened their eyes...

[LoriLori]

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@Angels&Ladybugs wrote:

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@LoriLori wrote:

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@Angels&Ladybugs wrote:

But anyone with an open mind can see the screaming evidence that he did these things.  He never slept with a woman or adult male in his life.  Only boys.  He only wanted boys and when they grew older he threw them away and replaced them.  Classic.

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Not true. Many people with "open minds" find the supposed facts presented suspect. And how on earth does anyone know if/whom he slept with in his life? 

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He never slept with his wife Debbie Rowe, he made her sign away the rights to see her kids -- thinking about "Blanket" makes my stomach churn although he's the one that was not from Debbie Rowe.  Money  money money, she was after money too, how could he do that? 

There is no reason to think he had sex with Lisa Marie.  He was not interested in girls. or women.  She will not discuss him.

You didn't watch the show.  Those who watched can spot those who did not.

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Not true again. My goodness there is quite a bit of presumption here. From "He never slept with a woman or adult male in his life" to telling me what I have watched. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but not to presume that their opinions are facts. Everything presented in a documentary is not a fact, particularly when the other side to an event can no longer be told. It is most certainly a horrible topic and I wasn't there so I don't "know" anything for sure, nor will I share my opinion. I simply am pointing out that presumption does not equal fact. Your spotter is off because I have watched, this and many other programs concerning this issue. JMO.

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Then why did he have a bigtime pre-arranged kiss with Lisa-Marie at the VMAs?  Who does that?  

And if you read the comments (pass the fawning ones) you'll see one person says read Randy Tamborelli about how that was staged and a second person describes how Michael stage-managed every camera angle.  

But I'll say it again, @Angels&Ladybugs :   You didn't watch.  It's obvious.  You say you've watched "this and many other programs" but you didn't watch this, it's obvious, and there has never been another "program" (this is a film) like it, ever.  

[LoriLori]

Watching part two it was so obvious that Michael just didn't choose his boys, he chose their families.  These two families were and are both so strange.

The mothers, the sister, the grandmother -- so many times they were smiling from the great memories.  The Robsons, moving to the U.S., leaving a bipolar, depressed father who hungs himself when the last one left.  None of them seemed all that sorry to me or is it their sorryness is mixed up gladness for everything they got out of it. 

ETA:  Only Wade's brother seemed grounded in reality and with a heavy heart and my heart went out to him since he was the last to leave for the U.S. and it was then the dad hung himself.  

I was appalled at both families and that's why I think Michael chose his familes even more carefully than his kids.  There's no other explanation.  If someone has one or a different theory -- someone who actually watched both parts -- I'd be very interested to hear it.