Q Talk

[violann]

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@Desertdi wrote:

It's called a "glottal stop"........common in many foreign languages.    Have no idea why it's been "adopted" here.............

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Good call- it is a regional pronunciation, sometimes considered nonstandard.

[dooBdoo]

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@violann wrote:

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@Desertdi wrote:

It's called a "glottal stop"........common in many foreign languages.    Have no idea why it's been "adopted" here.............

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Good call- it is a regional pronunciation, sometimes considered nonstandard.

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            This is different from the standard glottal stop, @violann.  It's the 3rd pronunciation I described -- someone needs to give it a name. 🤔😊

[violann]

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@dooBdoo wrote:

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@violann wrote:

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@Desertdi wrote:

It's called a "glottal stop"........common in many foreign languages.    Have no idea why it's been "adopted" here.............

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Good call- it is a regional pronunciation, sometimes considered nonstandard.

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            This is different from the standard glottal stop, @violann.  It's the 3rd pronunciation I described -- someone needs to give it a name. 🤔😊

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SO glad you’re here dB!!!!!👏🏻😊. I find the subject of developmental phonology and linguistics super fascinating!

The basic productions of the phoneme /t/ are tongue tip on the alveolar ridge (aspirated and unaspirated) and glottal, tongue tip between slightly open teeth with a slight puff of air being emitted from the nostrils.

The standard sound of /t/ is unvoiced, but the glottal production can’t be produced without voicing.

Could that be the difference you’re thinking about? 

I’m on the fly, but I’ll watch the video as soon as I can.

Has anyone mentioned that glottal stops occur frequently in Cockney English? Don’t know whether that’s currently considered non standard British production or not.

However much any of us may dislike the idea, and I sometimes do, language evolves and changes, and at his point with the constant barrage of media, faster all the time.

[dooBdoo]

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@violann wrote:

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@dooBdoo wrote:

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@violann wrote:

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@Desertdi wrote:

It's called a "glottal stop"........common in many foreign languages.    Have no idea why it's been "adopted" here.............

---

Good call- it is a regional pronunciation, sometimes considered nonstandard.

---

            This is different from the standard glottal stop, @violann.  It's the 3rd pronunciation I described -- someone needs to give it a name. 🤔😊

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SO glad you’re here dB!!!!!👏🏻😊. I find the subject of developmental phonology and linguistics super fascinating!

The basic productions of the phoneme /t/ are tongue tip on the alveolar ridge (aspirated and unaspirated) and glottal, tongue tip between slightly open teeth with a slight puff of air being emitted from the nostrils.

The standard sound of /t/ is unvoiced, but the glottal production can’t be produced without voicing.

Could that be the difference you’re thinking about? 

I’m on the fly, but I’ll watch the video as soon as I can.

Has anyone mentioned that glottal stops occur frequently in Cockney English? Don’t know whether that’s currently considered non standard British production or not.

However much any of us may dislike the idea, and I sometimes do, language evolves and changes, and at his point with the constant barrage of media, faster all the time.

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            You're so sweet, @violann!   I'm SO glad you're here, too!  The video presents the difference between the typical British and typical American pronunciation, though not the Cockney English, and does address the regular/hard "t" and the glottal "t".   Those are the 2 ways we've always known about and with which we've been familiar.

            This new, 3rd, pronunciation removes the "t" completely from the words.   As if "cotton" were 2 words, "cahh" and "hun" and as if "button" were 2 words, "buhh" and "hun."   

            It still does use a glottal stop but not in the way we've known with these words before -- and you're right, it is very much like the Cockney!   It's something that has appeared in, perhaps, the last 10 years or so?   I've heard some conjecture that it arose from "valley girl speak" and gradually slipped into more common use.   Personally, I think it's much more difficult to pronounce that way.   

            We need a clip from one of Dennis Basso's shows, because he's a very good example of this strange modification.

            If I have time, later, maybe I can find an example -- or maybe someone else can -- so you'll hear this 3rd pronounciation.   Have a lovely day, @violann!😊

[Sooner]

Where I live it is an affectation that a lot of younger girls have picked up.  It goes along with pronouncing "didn't" as "dit-unt" or something like that.  They have to set themselves apart from the ignorant gizzers older than themselves. 

[Shawnie]

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@dooBdoo wrote:

           There actually are 3 ways people are pronouncing words like "cotton" or "button."   In my experience, there used to be only 2 ways -- either a regular or "hard" sound to the "t" or the glottal sound most of us probably use.   Here's a very basic video that explains and we can hear the 2 sounds (you ony need to listen to the first part to get the gist):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vabg-EUHOQk

           In recent times, for some reason, people have invented a 3rd pronunciation.   This method sounds like "cahh--hun" or "buhh--hun" with the main accent on the first syllable but definite emphasis on both syllables, and it eliminates the "t" altogether.   Dennis Basso does this quite distinctly, and every time I hear it I think how much more difficult it is to say the words that way, it takes more effort.

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Thankyou for posting this video.  It explains why the third newer variation in cotton and button sounds like chalk on a board to me.  The person on qvc that I hear using it is the blonde vendor for Dooney who says Bu'un regularly in describing the strap type on their bags.  Every time she pronounces it I cringe.  BTW I pronounce all of the examples in the video using the glottal first choice pronunciation except-Mountain which I believe that I pronounce both glottal and with the emphasis on the second syllable as Moun Tain.  Go figure.

[Sweet Caroline 1]

Annie57, I have always noticed it and it does sound wrong to me.  I live in Alabama, southern accent of corse, and I notice it.  We had speech arts classes in 7th grade and phonics in reading classes.  These were basic classes taught every year.  So when I hear someone mispronounce words, I just notice it.  Cotton has two t's so you pronounce two t's...  cot  ton.  Southern pronunceation can sound like cot  un.         

[insomniac2]

I am weary of posters mentioning Susan Graver's pronouncing "length" without the "g" sound.

This is a perfectly legitimate way of pronouncing that word: check your dictionary!

As for the disappearing "t" in cotton, I think that's strange.

[suzyQ3]

@dooBdoo, you nailed it with your post describing the three ways of pronouncing such words. I am used to the soft "t" version. The hard "t" sounds strange to me.

As for the third way, the one that is the issue here, I don't necessarily think that it is laziness at all but rather a habit arising from how it's pronounced in a person's environment.

As @on the bay mentioned, I also have trouble even mimicking the the dropping of both "T's

[MarthaStewardess]

Lol, I thought I was the only one that found this annoying.  I was watching one of the new hosts on overnights a few days ago and she says "Cohhh-en"  she's also got an annoying little girl voice.  There are other hosts (Shawn, for example) that cannot pronounce the word orange.  To her, it's ornnng.  QVC never used to be this bad, with unprofessional hosts and bad speaking habits.