Community Chat

[terrier3]

Having worked in sales for a long time, I've had sales managers who think that the best commission salespeople are the ones who have the most "stuff". The biggest house, the best cars, etc. They felt that people who live ABOVE their means are more motivated to sell, sell sell.

I always took the opposite approach. When I am NOT in debt, I'm not anxious to sell to pay my bills. I can concentrate on what's best for my clients. I have found that being confident in my own ability to pay my monthly bills has HELPED me close business. I find pushy salespeople who are desperate to make a commission are not the best salespeople - I've run into a lot of desperate salespeople when I buy cars, furniture and appliances...desperation isn't a positive, IMO!

[IamMrsG]

@151949   You make some valid points.  This calculator also does not address the divisions of Middle Class, i.e., lower middle vs upper middle, as I mentioned in the overly large variance in the category.

At this PEW site, after you enter your annual income and number of household members to determine your class level, you are asked for your education level, age, race and marital status--presumably for their data collection.  Nowhere does it ask for your location in the country. 

[Isobel Archer]

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@151949 wrote:

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@IamMrsG wrote:

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@MaggieMack wrote:

@jubilant, I just googled "are you in the middle class" and found a calculator on a Pew Research site.

Pew Calaulator

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I played around with the PEW calculator provided by @MaggieMack. (Thank you.) Following is what I found as definitions of income brackets and class levels.  I presume this is before tax dollars.

Based on a 2 member household :

$34,000 annual income = lower class = 29% of Americans

$35,000 - $102,000 annual income = middle class = 50% of Americans

$103,000 annual income = upper = 21% of Americans

To be honest, I am surprised by the huge range in middle class.  An annual income of $67,000 (the variance) makes a major difference in the lives of two people.

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These numbers don't mean a darn thing IMO - $35,000 to a young couple with student loans and a mortgage would be terrible but for a retired couple who already own their home and have no debt is a very workable income, and then there is where do you live? You could not live on $35000 in NYC, Chicago or LA but in Pittsburgh or SW Florida it is a more workable income, actually we live on a monthly amount not very much more than that very comfortably.

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I know you and I don't always agree, but I'm with you on this one and I'm sorry you are taking flak from folks who can't imagine living without a car or sacrificing in general and who then extrapolate that to - no one else should ever be expected to do without either and to even suggest that they could is mean and spiteful (despite the fact that you, yourself lived/live that life - which they totally discount).  Funny how anecdotal evidence only applies to folks they've read about, but never met.

I really think that a lot of the folks who are so generous with taxpayer money wouldn't be/aren't nearly so generous with their own money - and certainly wouldn't be with people misusing it (and yes if it was their own personal money they would certainly take notice of how it was spent.)

It's just so easy to feel virtuous (and to then justify that expensive handbag) when they know they have "stood up" for the poor by advocating that the "government" do more to help them.  Box checked.  Time to shop now.

[Trinity11]

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

@winamac1 This happens all the time here on this board. If you live on a budget and say NO to yourself and then make the mistake of saying so here you will be constantly belittled for it, like you are doing something wrong. NEWS FLASH - those of us who live within our means and don't use credit to buy what we can't really afford are the ones doing something RIGHT.

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I think some people are tired of being chastised on this board by people in completely different circumstances when they purchase something. No one is privvy to someone else's financial status unless they choose to share it on this board.

A lot of posters here do live within their means and have a lot of money to buy anything they want. Choosing to share their purchases should not be met with an avalanche of advice on budgeting. Clearly, anyone who can afford the finer things in life has done something right.

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Interesting that sharing spending on the finer things in life should be beyond comment, but chastising me for mentioning charitible contributions was apparently a holy act in your view - as you felt the need to tell me your priest would not approve.

So I guess you'd prefer to hear how many expensive purses I have???

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You obviously misunderstood my post. I never said my priest would disapprove of what YOU chose to share about your charitable acts. I said that I yes I would not wish to share what acts of charity I did. Why that seems to be such a sore spot with you is strange to me.

If someone chooses to share what they bought last week, why would I mind? Charitable acts and purchases simply aren't the same....apples to oranges.

[Isobel Archer]

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

@winamac1 This happens all the time here on this board. If you live on a budget and say NO to yourself and then make the mistake of saying so here you will be constantly belittled for it, like you are doing something wrong. NEWS FLASH - those of us who live within our means and don't use credit to buy what we can't really afford are the ones doing something RIGHT.

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I think some people are tired of being chastised on this board by people in completely different circumstances when they purchase something. No one is privvy to someone else's financial status unless they choose to share it on this board.

A lot of posters here do live within their means and have a lot of money to buy anything they want. Choosing to share their purchases should not be met with an avalanche of advice on budgeting. Clearly, anyone who can afford the finer things in life has done something right.

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Interesting that sharing spending on the finer things in life should be beyond comment, but chastising me for mentioning charitible contributions was apparently a holy act in your view - as you felt the need to tell me your priest would not approve.

So I guess you'd prefer to hear how many expensive purses I have???

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You obviously misunderstood my post. I never said my priest would disapprove of what YOU spent. I said that I yes I would not wish to share what acts of charity I did. Why that seems to be such a sore spot with you is strange to me.

If someone chooses to share what they bought last week, why would I mind? Charitable acts and purchases simply aren't the same....apples to oranges.

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Clearly, there is misunderstanding.

You told me - when I shared about charitable contributions (which is not a "sore spot" with me) that your priest told "us that what we give is between God and ourselves" and that thus, you would never share such things.

So I understood that to be telling me that I shouldn't be sharing that either.  However, maybe that is not what you meant.

Later you said you didn't like it when folks didn't want to hear what others spent on the finer things in life.  I simply remarked that I found it interesting that it was fine to share what you spend (and I said nothing about your priest's views on this - as I have no idea what they even are), but not at all OK to share what you give.

And I will add that I only even mentioned giving to charity in the context of others citing how people who opposed welfare fraud also never gave - or gave very little.  It's not as if I started a thread about it.

[Trinity11]

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

@winamac1 This happens all the time here on this board. If you live on a budget and say NO to yourself and then make the mistake of saying so here you will be constantly belittled for it, like you are doing something wrong. NEWS FLASH - those of us who live within our means and don't use credit to buy what we can't really afford are the ones doing something RIGHT.

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I think some people are tired of being chastised on this board by people in completely different circumstances when they purchase something. No one is privvy to someone else's financial status unless they choose to share it on this board.

A lot of posters here do live within their means and have a lot of money to buy anything they want. Choosing to share their purchases should not be met with an avalanche of advice on budgeting. Clearly, anyone who can afford the finer things in life has done something right.

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Interesting that sharing spending on the finer things in life should be beyond comment, but chastising me for mentioning charitible contributions was apparently a holy act in your view - as you felt the need to tell me your priest would not approve.

So I guess you'd prefer to hear how many expensive purses I have???

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You obviously misunderstood my post. I never said my priest would disapprove of what YOU spent. I said that I yes I would not wish to share what acts of charity I did. Why that seems to be such a sore spot with you is strange to me.

If someone chooses to share what they bought last week, why would I mind? Charitable acts and purchases simply aren't the same....apples to oranges.

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Clearly, there is misunderstanding.

You told me - when I shared about charitable contributions (which is not a "sore spot" with me) that your priest told "us that what we give is between God and ourselves" and that thus, you would never share such things.

So I understood that to be telling me that I shouldn't be sharing that either.  However, maybe that is not what you meant.

Later you said you didn't like it when folks didn't want to hear what others spent on the finer things in life.  I simply remarked that I found it interesting that it was fine to share what you spend (and I said nothing about your priest's views on this - as I have no idea what they even are), but not at all OK to share what you give.

And I will add that I only even mentioned giving to charity in the context of others citing how people who opposed welfare fraud also never gave - or gave very little.  It's not as if I started a thread about it.

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You share whatever you want. Who am I to tell you differently? I apologize if you thought I was admonishing you. Just personally, I don't share what I give to charity nor do I expatiate on my purchases or real estate.

My point to the other poster with the number for a nic was that there are lots of people who post here with mucho dinero that can buy anything they want. Work hard, educate yourself and have some luck in life and you don't always need to live on a budget. Chastising those who really made $$$ in their lifetime are simply tired of the lessons on living on the cheap.

Maybe a thread should be started on how to make money in this world without apologizing for it. (just kidding)

[151949]

Oh come on - unless you are Warren Buffet you have to live on some sort of budget.

[Moonchilde]

It strikes me that this thread as a whole reflects our nation as a whole. The actual differing POV of course, but more than that, the very clear, very defined "Us vs. Them", "digging in our heels" mentality that the entire country has reflected for some time and sadly will continue to reflect throughout the rest of my foreseeable lifetime.

There are few if any gray areas, little to no agreeing in part. Absolutely NO working together to discuss solutions - that would be "traitorous" to Us. We have to defeat Them in every way, in everyTHING. It doesn't matter what or who falls by the wayside, is defeated, trampled, forgotten, the only thing that matters in this country any more is US. If you're not Us, you're just...THEM. And to hear people talk, it's as bad as the days of segregation as far as the way people view Them. The vitriol is tangible.

I don't know why anyone on these forums is ever surprised at the polarity here. Polarity is our way of life in this country now. Meeting in the Middle for discussion or action, even (or especially) for the good, or anywhere along the way, is Treason.

There is just Us screaming at Them, with no desire or even false intent to listen or consider. Hyperbole instead of reality, because hyperbole is absolute and reality might lead to...OMG...intelligent discourse.

Yes, I know there have been posters in this thread who have represented rationality, calm discussion and a willingness to listen; those who recognize hyperbole for the tactic it is. But look how quickly they are piled on, sometimes by both sides. The middle ground, the compromisers, are pushed to the side - no one's interested.

It's just 21st C America in operation.

[glorybe]

@dooBdoo, I want to thank you for posting the link although viewing it brought back some bad memories from my past. Large family of 10 people, 9 children. We did have a home, a big drafty thing in which we smothered in the summer and froze in the winter. Our power was shut off numerous times along with access to the grocery store as we were only allowed to charge so much on the bill each month before Dad got his check. We did go hungry at times, so it happened even in the 40's, 50's, early 60's before any government programs were available to help. 

So, none of this is new to me. I hate that it still happens!