Community Chat

[hckynut]

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@willdob3 wrote:

A big part of the problem is that a lot of what we have been taught about healthy nutrition in the past several decades is not true. And if one is not researching or seeking info, one won't find the current science. 

Many things I knew as important for losing weight & getting fit years ago have been proven to be incorrect. Some were simply well-marketed ideas to get us to buy things. I can just turn the basket upside down to find the truth. 

Exercise has very little to do with weight loss. BUT the right kinds of exercise will reshape one's body. Think of nutrition (what & when one eats) as the cake & exercise as the icing.

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@willdob3, Hello to you,

I will have to disagree with your statement that "exercise has very little to do with weight loss". I don't know how or where you surmised that to be true, but is not an accurate statement.

Now weight numbers on a scale have never meant much to me. Those, what I see as arbitrary numbers, tell you very little about your body. Without knowing the composition of which your body is made, one is left with only meaningless numbers.

I doubt there are many that do not know that human body is made up of between 65-70% water. And most also know that their fluid retentions varies. I have taken my weight prior to my training runs, and then after. I have seen anywhere from a 6-12lb. difference between before and after, on a "numbers only" scale.

Do I think I lost up to 12lbs of fat during that training run? Of course not, but this is an example of fluid fluctuation in one's body, and how deceptive scale numbers are to many that rely solely on those ridiculous numbers.

Take the biggest moving muscles in your body. Increase them in size and functionality, and there you go. Now since muscle burns fat, and stronger and more fit and efficient muscles are developed via exercise? "Exercise has very little to do with weight loss"?

Those big exercised muscles burn more fat, and there are many types of exercises one can do to help change the shape and size of their bodies. One has to remember, that when muscle tissue replaces fat, those scale numbers may go up. But at the same time, ones body size, can decrease.

I could yak about this for hours, but I just wanted to point out, that without knowing the composition of one's body, scale numbers mean very little to me. I hope others will begin to do the same. Many that "diet" to lose weight, are too often discouraged by scale numbers. All to often because of that, many give up, and it is a shame.

hckynut(john)

[conlt]

Last September I joined Weight Watchers and it has changed my life. I am 55 pounds down, I don't  view it as torture because I eat anything that I want but I plan for it and if I mess up too bad with the next meal I am back on track. Exercise for me had to be something that I could stick with so I bought a jumpsport fitness trampoline and that has done the trick. I started just lightly bouncing on it and now I am pretty advanced. I use it when I watch TV. No big deal and it works. 

[willdob3]

@hckynut - my comment is based on current science but that is probably not based completely on water/fluid loss, which is the example you mention. I believe it is mostly regarding fat loss. Exercise does contribute some, but it is mostly about healthy nutrition.

I don't put much stock in scale weight either because it does not reflect body composition or fitness. Scale weight is a very poor way to judge one's health or fitness level. 

It is possible to lose fat & inches without seeing the scale change at all, and sometimes even seeing the scale go up. 

[SaRina]

Hi @hckynut.  I agree with much of what you are saying, but have to point out the difference between men and women insofar as exercise/muscle/weight loss is concerned.

I'm just speaking from my own experience manipulating my diet and exercise over many years.  Of course, everyone is different in how their body will react to those factors but, in general, IMO exercise for women does play a much lesser role in weight loss than does the diet. That's not to say exercise isn't important for many other reasons.

Re: muscle burning more calories than fat and therefore aiding in weight loss....We know that women do not build muscle to the same extent as men.  It would take a woman reaching almost a bodybuilder's level of muscle to have significant enough muscle to burn the amount of calories to make a really noticeable difference in her weight.   But a woman will be more successful with weight loss.by focusing on the right balance of foods -- even the time of day she consumes foods -- to increase her metabolism and cause her body to turn to fat stores for energy. 

Also, if you're talking about aerobic exercise, most women over 45 let's say, who are not "athletes" are generally not able (or willing) to put in the amount of time/mileage that would be required to make a significant impact on their weight. Of course there are many who do and can, so don't come yelling at me ladies! lol, but for the average female poster here, they are not logging in miles and miles per week.  So, again, the diet would be something they can focus on to make a bigger impact on their weight loss.

Personally, I agree with you about the scale and may weigh myself once every couple of months.  Even though too many women get into a panic if they see a gain of one lb. or they don't see a loss after "dieting" for a couple of weeks, a lot of women use the scale as a motivational tool.  If that works for them, fine.  I see it as an unnecessary (and inaccurate) stress.

I enjoy talking to you about this subject because of your extensive knowledge.  :-)

[Laura14]

@conlt  Congratulations!!!  Keep it up.  I have always wanted to jump on one of those things.  You may have inspired me to get one.  I've been meaning to up my cardio somehow some way at home.

Anyone who believes that exercise does not significantly help the weight loss journey, in my opinion, is very misguided.  Women do not bulk up like men do because we have less testosterone to help us in that regard.  Most women I know don't want a bulky appearance anyway.  It doesn't come to us naturally like it does with men.  But, we absolutely lay down muscle when we exercise and it does help significantly in keeping our weight down just like in guys.  It's just not as visible.

And it doesn't take much effort to do it.  I alternate between walking in the park and gym classes (weights and bike) and I have dropped my weight back to my high school days and stayed there for a year.  And I am over 45.  When I gained weight just recently on vacation which happens very quickly when you lose the good nutrition part, I got right back on track and lost it within two weeks. I did that because I have regular exercise, muscle memory from the exercise, and a return to good food.

Bottom line, you need both for success.  Exercise without nutrition is helpful but will not do the job alone to keep you healthy.  Same with eating.  You can starve or restrict yourself down to a lighter weight but without exercise, you rarely stay there and feel well with your body.  In fact, most older people  fall because they've lost the tone in their core muscles.  Simple walking and balance exercises can help prevent that.  Putting whatever (healthy or non-healthy) into your mouth does not.          

[hckynut]

Hi @SaRina,

I agree that the female gender are not genetically able to develop the same amounts of muscle mass as are their counterparts. Females, in general, also genetically carry more fat than the male.

While I agree with many maybe not having the time, or the desire, to log miles or longer times, doing aerobic types of exercising, one cannot underestimate the importance of resistance exercises, in regards to muscle burning fat.

More muscle, more ability for everyone to burn fat. Fat tissue is just along for the ride and the more fat the harder the muscles have to work to move x amount of distance, or movement, as it pertains to muscle contraction/elongation and flexibility.

I see way too many today that overlook another very important part of exercising. Many because they see it as "too easy", thus feeling it as a waste of time. I am referring to flexibility which can only be maintained or improved via the proper way of stretching.

Way too many that do incorporate stretching into their programs, make the mistake of attempting to warm up muscles by doing either "ballistic or dynamic" stretching. That not only does not help a muscles ability towards flexibility, it often is the cause of many muscle and/or connective tissue damage(injuries).

No athlete or exerciser should do the 2 aforementioned stretching exercises before any type of serious movement. Those should only be used(I personally have never used either), after their exercising and cooldown time has been completed. Even then, I have always believed that "static stretching", does the most good in maintaining muscle elongation and flexibility.

While I participated in many types competitive events, and done countless hours of running/skating/strength training, I have never suffered from a muscle or connective tissue injury.

I have also never suffered from a serious joint injury(excluding my 3 ruptured lumbar discs). I believe that is due to always making stretching and flexibility, just as important in all my training as my aerobic/anaerobic and resistance exercising. Doing that type of stretching HAS TO be done at the proper times.

I in no way am diminishing the role played in the way one fuels their body. As you know, there are certain elements a body requires to function at it's maximal ability. Many foods enhance that ability, and just as many, if not more, prevent ones body from reaching it's maximal ability.

While I have been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for over 40+ years, I have never advocated that those wanting to lose body fat should ever completely quit eating foods that they love. I believe those doing that, the majority of them, never reach their goal weight and if they do, it is not long term(which to me means the rest of your life).

I experimented for years and years on my own body via different food intakes and different forms of exercising to find the things that led my body and mind to their maximal abilities to perform. My best running and skating came after I reached 50 years old.

I realized that many times, doing less gained me more in regards to performance. I found new ways to train, in less amounts of time or distance, gained me the most. I also found that this same type of training led me to much faster recoveries after my 2 heart attacks and my battles with my bleeding colon.

Thank you for your response, and like you, I too always enjoy discussing one of my favorite things in life, health and physical and mental fitness.

hckynut(john)

[SaRina]

A lot of great information in your post @hckynut!  You are certainly an inspiration as well.  :-)

Because of our mutual enjoyment of this subject, I fear we are getting a bit O/T.  It's easy to get carried away, right?  lol

You are absolutely correct about stretching being important to avoid injury, especially as we age, and how important it is to not stretch a cold muscle.  You are also correct about never completely eliminating foods we love in order to be successful at weight loss.

I would never underestimate the importance of exercise, particularly lifting weights for women.  I've been doing that for 30 some odd years.  I still hold to the opinion, however, which I believe is still supported by the research all these years later, as it was back then, that diet is more of a determining factor in weight loss than exercise.  Exercise definitely enhances one's weight loss efforts and is critical for overall health and fitness.

But I think it's important to relate this to the average woman.  I get tired of hearing these exercise gurus say, "All you have to do is cut calories and exercise more."  It isn't that simple for the average woman.

One of the biggest problems for most women who want to lose weight is that they find tackling both the issue of food and exercise at the same time, all at once, to be quite overwhelming.  Once they become overwhelmed, it is a sure road to failure.  They will be far more successful in putting their effort into diet first.  By changing the diet, weight loss will occur and once they have tackled that all-important aspect, then they can incorporate more exercise.  If they were to keep their diet the same and increase exercise alone, I think they would be disappointed with the lack of progress (rate of weight loss).  My personal experience has found this to be true.

Getting back to the OP and being hungry while trying to lose weight..... The more carbs you eat, the hungrier you will be, especially if you are carb-sensitive like I am.  I discovered this on my own and the research bears it out.  Eating carbs throughout the day creates a spike, then drop in insulin.  Simply put, this yo-yo of insulin release is what makes you hungry for more carbs and it sets up a vicious cycle of eating carbs, spiking, dropping, craving carbs, and on and on.  If you can avoid repeated insulin releases during the day by reducing carbs or by confining carbs to 1-2 meals, you will be less hungry and more successful in losing weight.  Of course, if you are one of the lucky ones, you will not feel hungrier by eating a higher carb diet, but I find this to be the exception rather than the rule.

[Laura14]

You'll definitely see and feel dietary changes faster than you will with exercise. I think most people try and do everything hardcore all at once in one fell swoop and that sets them up for failure.  You can't do a complete overhaul in one day.  It's too deprivational.  

Change one thing at a time and if you are hungry, eat.  Even just easing off and eating one sugary treat instead of two every day or every hour of the day is changing your diet and will show results until you can get to where you really need to be long term.

You can eat less and exercise more even if the start is less dessert/snacks and parking a little further away than you normally do and walking a few extra steps.  It all adds up.   

[hckynut]

Eating less was all that was known when I lost my 70+ lbs back in the 1950's. Even going through almost all of the u1970's and early 1980's, unless one was looking for books related to exercise, there was not much of use that could be found.

I remember when many doctors would tell their patient: "if you got hurt/injured doing xyz, quit doing xyz. What and how much a person ate was the sole determining factor for many years, but there just were not many people that really care, but those looking to improve in athletic endeavors.

You did not see NFL/NBA or NHL pro-players doing much for warming up, and I never ever saw a professional hockey player doing any stretching before any hockey game until into the 1980's. Most pro athletes did little to nothing during the off season, but enjoy themselves.

When pre-season came around, that is when they shed the fat and hoped to make the team cut, that was true in all Levels of semi, and major league sports. Anyone that has doubts about this, info is very easy to find by looking at most athletes of that era.

I remember in 1970 I had a running injury and could not find any info about it. What it was/what caused it, much less what to do to rehab it but icing.

A Nebraska University Football player lived in the same apartment building, and I knew he had a similar type of knee injury(I considered mine a annoyance because I could still run)and hs could not play. Our Cornhuskers was the National Champion that year and also 1971.

I asked him what they did for his injury thinking I might know much more about how team therapists helped players get back on the field. All he could tell me was to keep icing it and maybe taping it. Not much help as I did try taping, but it made it harder to run.

So there was "weight loss dieting" and I was pretty much stuck to my own learning devices with about every injury that came my way. Lots of searching for books, a few I did find that helped, but for the most part, if you had any type of unusual pain when running or skating? You were pretty much on your own.

While it was some painful times as I had 1 injury after another, but just not quite bad enough to get me to give up running, and keep looking for someone or something that told me more than I knew at that time.

So as far as losing weight via food types and how much versus exercise? Anyone that wants to take a trip with me back to 1965 and what was known about sports type injuries? If you were able to find out more than I was, please tell me, in every minute' detail will you? If you were able to find those in the Sports Med Know, when it came to injuries, I would sure like to know where you were able to find the info, as I sure wasn't.

I may have suffered all those times in vain because of living in the sticks of Nebraska and not the big sports cities.

hckynut(john)

[hckynut]

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@Mmsfoxxie wrote:

@qualitygal, what a play on words and so essentially true!  It's the biggest game in town.  And most of us that play it have been doing so most of our adult lives, lol.  Sometimes we win it but it usually is only temporary.  Could it be that some are meant to be a little over the top, like it or not.

 It reminds me of that theory that was floating around years ago that we all have a set point bd no matter what you do, your body/appetite leads you back to it.  It might be 6 months...it might be 6 years but that number on the scale always comes back to haunt you.

Now why my font color changed up above, I have no idea.  Hmmmmm.

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@Mmsfoxxie,

My font size and color has changed, unbeknownst to me, many times. If it is a small segment of my novella, I go back and retype it. If not? It is what it is.

hckynut(john)