Community Chat

[suzyQ3]

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@esmerelda wrote:

@suzyQ3  Nice response.

I wonder how many of CR's accusers still worked for him when they came forward.

Again...just mild curiosity.

And I'm not judging anyone.  Their behavior (the women) is so foreign to me...that they would suffer silently...I don't understand it.

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@esmerelda, I truly do believe you. I know that many women don't either. In fact, if my mother were alive today, she would be giving you hearts right and left. :-)

[Cakers3]

She asked for it.

She liked it.

She came onto me first

She's a known tart around the office.

She dresses in come hither clothing.

She likes attention.

She had an affair with someone which proves she isn't a moral person.

She's a liar.

She's not my type-rehash of she's a liar.

She needs meds.

She wanted revenge because I broke up with her/turned down an offer for a date.

She wants a promotion that I'm in line for (male superiority).

She has no life. (sexual or otherwise)

Any questions as to why a woman might remain silent?

[Drythe]

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@esmerelda wrote:

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@Drythe wrote:

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@esmerelda wrote:

@DrytheWhatever job they wanted to protect by not telling what was happening to them.

That's why they kept quiet in many cases, right?  Jobs in television are hard to find, blah, blah, blah.

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@esmerelda

I don’t know why they kept quiet, neither do you.

But, I can easily think of several reasons 🤔.  I try to do so coming from a place of empathy, not blaming and shaming.

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@DrytheI'm not blaming and shaming.  I want to slap them.  I want to know why they let someone do these things to them and they kept quiet about them.  I want to know why they don't have self respect OR self love enough to protect themselves at any cost.  And if they themselves don't think they are worth that...well, I don't know who can help them

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@esmerelda

Yes, you've made that very clear.

I can't help but wonder why all the anger.

How well would you fare "protecting yourself at any costs" from a 220 lb. man?

And if you think you would do a good job well, then I wish you'd been there for me and many of my sisters who did NOT ask for it, who fought hard, and who remained silent for reasons you obviously can't fathom.

[Carmie]

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@esmerelda wrote:

@DrytheWhatever job they wanted to protect by not telling what was happening to them.

That's why they kept quiet in many cases, right?  Jobs in television are hard to find, blah, blah, blah.

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@esmerelda Have you read the news or even watched the news on TV?  These women DID NOT keep quiet.  The complained and nothing was done to stop it.  They had to try to avoid being alone with these guys to protect themselves.

Men who have power, are not everyday people.  They get perks and special attention.  Their bad behavior is swept under the rug to protect them.

Havey Weinstein even hired goons to harass, follow and photograph the women he abused.  They were told they would disappear if they said anything. This man had money, money is power.  This power is intimidating to women and men too.  There are just some people you do not want to rock the boat with.

it’s easy to say that “Yes, I would” but when you are scared, most will back down.  Every hear of the statement.  It’s better to be a chicken than a dead duck?

it’s not right or even decent to blame the victim.  You don’t know the circumstances and are not in a position to guess.

i had  student grope me with his full open hands while I was in high school.  I slapped him and screamed to high heaven and brought a lot of attention to scene of the crime. I received a punishment for hitting and screaming in the hallway and he received nothing and was let go.  I was over reacting to a non issue, it seems.  No one thought it was a big deal, except me.  He was the star quarterback, I was no one.

[LTT1]

No apologies please. None. 

I sure don’t want to hear any.

[Noel7]

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@Carmie wrote:

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@esmerelda wrote:

@DrytheWhatever job they wanted to protect by not telling what was happening to them.

That's why they kept quiet in many cases, right?  Jobs in television are hard to find, blah, blah, blah.

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@esmerelda Have you read the news or even watched the news on TV?  These women DID NOT keep quiet.  The complained and nothing was done to stop it.  They had to try to avoid being alone with these guys to protect themselves.

Men who have power, are not everyday people.  They get perks and special attention.  Their bad behavior is swept under the rug to protect them.

Havey Weinstein even hired goons to harass, follow and photograph the women he abused.  They were told they would disappear if they said anything. This man had money, money is power.  This power is intimidating to women and men too.  There are just some people you do not want to rock the boat with.

it’s easy to say that “Yes, I would” but when you are scared, most will back down.  Every hear of the statement.  It’s better to be a chicken than a dead duck?

it’s not right or even decent to blame the victim.  You don’t know the circumstances and are not in a position to guess.

i had  student grope me with his full open hands while I was in high school.  I slapped him and screamed to high heaven and brought a lot of attention to scene of the crime. I received a punishment for hitting and screaming in the hallway and he received nothing and was let go.  I was over reacting to a non issue, it seems.  No one thought it was a big deal, except me.  He was the star quarterback, I was no one.

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((((( @Carmie )))))

[NycVixen]

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@esmerelda wrote:

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@NycVixen wrote:

I'm sure all these men knew what they were doing but I think narcissism and ego also led these men who claim there were "shared feelings" or "some is not accurate" to believe on some level that these women wanted them. These type of situations where power and sexual impropriety intersect are so complicated.

I remember Tiger Woods saying he felt entitled to sleep with all those women. There seems to be a sense of entitlement that comes with their success that they honestly believe they are 'owed' these sexual experiences and in turn to have as many women as they please. Their egos and hubris rationalize the behavior and while knowing they are assaulting or harassing women, some part of their male ego says to them that the women want them in return. That these women are lucky to be with them due to their fame and/or success.

What's clear from all the sexual assault and harassment to all the male shooters is that men are and have been in crisis for a very long time.

But since they control everything they suppress the gendered narrative. Men, as women long have known, are not as good as they think they are. They are on top not based entirely on merit but due to women's continued oppression. 

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@NycVixenI'm pretty sure you are saying men control everything.  To which I say...

There are some women at all levels of government, CEO's, and world leaders who would disagree with that.

Maybe it's that kind of thinking...that men control everything...that got us where we are today.  I think I read some time ago that you are a millenial. If your peers believe that too, we'll be having these same news reports again in the future.

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@esmerelda Unfortunately, whether you agree or disagree, it's a fact. 

It did get us where we are today because women are oppressed. Women are still being egregiously discriminated and are treated like objects. Why do women still make less than men? Because men control industry, organizations etc. Society reflects men's aspirations, needs and desires by design.

Misogyny and the idea that women are inferior to men is instilled into all persons from birth, male or female. This issue is systemic. In order to find  solutions, we must all face the facts and not just people my age. Millenials are not in control; older generations are. Passing future blame to us is  counterproductive. 

This current situation has nothing to do with my age or my peers. It's the state of affairs of the world. This will keep happening until women are respected and have true decision power.

[jeanlake]

Quick, public apologies don't allow for remorse, enlightenment, counseling, mentoring, personal reflection, and re-education. For any of us who have received quick apologies from people with addictive personalities -- we may see tears and words that come across as sincere, but its manipulative until abusers get serious about putting in the effort to understand how their abusive actions hurt others.

This societal dysfunction involves centuries of desensitised attitudes regarding respect for personal boundaries. It's amazing that finally a big spotlight is shining on the problem.

During this positive season of societal change, wicked people who falsely accuse should pay severe consequences.  

[Highlands72]

CARMIE wrote:
...

 it’s easy to say that “Yes, I would” but when you are scared, most will back down.  Every hear of the statement.  It’s better to be a chicken than a dead duck?

it’s not right or even decent to blame the victim.  You don’t know the circumstances and are not in a position to guess.

...

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Totally agree. I suspect that each victim assesses her individual situation and reacts in the way she determines best for her own "survival."

How a victim reacts bears little relevance to me. It is not her responsibility to control the behavior of the predator; she should never have been put in the position to make such a difficult decision regarding how to handle it.

[esmerelda]

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@NycVixen wrote:

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@esmerelda wrote:

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@NycVixen wrote:

I'm sure all these men knew what they were doing but I think narcissism and ego also led these men who claim there were "shared feelings" or "some is not accurate" to believe on some level that these women wanted them. These type of situations where power and sexual impropriety intersect are so complicated.

I remember Tiger Woods saying he felt entitled to sleep with all those women. There seems to be a sense of entitlement that comes with their success that they honestly believe they are 'owed' these sexual experiences and in turn to have as many women as they please. Their egos and hubris rationalize the behavior and while knowing they are assaulting or harassing women, some part of their male ego says to them that the women want them in return. That these women are lucky to be with them due to their fame and/or success.

What's clear from all the sexual assault and harassment to all the male shooters is that men are and have been in crisis for a very long time.

But since they control everything they suppress the gendered narrative. Men, as women long have known, are not as good as they think they are. They are on top not based entirely on merit but due to women's continued oppression. 

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@NycVixenI'm pretty sure you are saying men control everything.  To which I say...

There are some women at all levels of government, CEO's, and world leaders who would disagree with that.

Maybe it's that kind of thinking...that men control everything...that got us where we are today.  I think I read some time ago that you are a millenial. If your peers believe that too, we'll be having these same news reports again in the future.

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@esmerelda Unfortunately, whether you agree or disagree, it's a fact. 

It did get us where we are today because women are oppressed. Women are still being egregiously discriminated and are treated like objects. Why do women still make less than men? Because men control industry, organizations etc. Society reflects men's aspirations, needs and desires by design.

Misogyny and the idea that women are inferior to men is instilled into all persons from birth, male or female. This issue is systemic. In order to find  solutions, we must all face the facts and not just people my age. Millenials are not in control; older generations are. Passing future blame to us is  counterproductive. 

This current situation has nothing to do with my age or my peers. It's the state of affairs of the world. This will keep happening until women are respected and have true decision power.

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@NycVixenAnd how will ^^^that^^^ happen?