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Re: One Panda Twin dies :(

[ Edited ]

@HappyDaze

DH and I were having this discussion in the car today about pandas and their survival. They are members of the bear family yet eat mostly various types of bamboo. They would occasionally eat some meat (members of the rodent family). Bamboo is harvested in various forests for use in ancient Chinese medicine and it cuts down on their main food source.

 

I also read some info about how they are not interested in propagating themselves either thus the artificial insemination needed in zoo facilities.

This Science NBC News article from 7 years ago goes into detail about why this is happening and it explains the bears wanting to eat bamboo all the time-- which in order to maintain their bodies have to eat a fourth of their body weight daily to obtain the right amount of nutrients.

 

Edited to make the link visible.

 

I told DH that maybe we are doing a 'dog chasing its tail' game with the attempt to save them from extinction.

☼The best place to seek God is in a garden. You can dig for him there. GBShaw☼
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I can't imagine a world with Pandas, such wonderful animals.  As a child, I always had my one large stuffed panda, my favorite, though loving all animals, I had many real and toy animals.

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@JustJazzmom wrote:

@HappyDaze

DH and I were having this discussion in the car today about pandas and their survival. They are members of the bear family yet eat mostly various types of bamboo. They would occasionally eat some meat (members of the rodent family). Bamboo is harvested in various forests for use in ancient Chinese medicine and it cuts down on their main food source.

 

I also read some info about how they are not interested in propagating themselves either thus the artificial insemination needed in zoo facilities.

This Science NBC News article from 7 years ago goes into detail about why this is happening and it explains the bears wanting to eat bamboo all the time-- which in order to maintain their bodies have to eat a fourth of their body weight daily to obtain the right amount of nutrients.

 

I told DH that maybe we are doing a 'dog chasing its tail' game with the attempt to save them from extinction.


Yes exactly! You touched on a few of the key issues with Pandas. Their digestive system and teeth are meant for a carnivorous diet, which they use to eat. I will have to check into that article and could go further into it but hopefully the article sums it all up for those interested in learning more. There is also the issue with panda mothers and often crushing their young or, in the case of twins, only tending to nurture one, if any at all.

 

Anyway, like I said, not meaning to go on and on but I appreciate that there are others out there that have delved into this issue more and understand the issue with pandas. I find it odd that we spend so much time trying to save the panda when there are thousands of other creatures going extinct all the time at the hands of humans, such as the destruction of the Amazon, poaching, hunting, land development,etc. The only thing I can think of is that so many people think the panda is "cute and cuddly" and things like the hairy rhino, Sloane's urania,  or the  Xerces blue blutterfly isn't as cute and cuddly.

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@surfk wrote:

Sometimes it can be a sad yet simple case of the runt dying or the mother just refusing to feed it.

 

But often, there is a reason that the mother refuses a cub or newborn. Its not always just because there are two (or a litter). Often, a mother can sense that the rejected newborn has some other problem with it.

 

Its some deep instinctual thing which many animals possess - a sense of something we can't see or yet measure or gauge. But they sense it from birth.

 

So while it is sad, even bottle feeding it demonstrates that the little cub was perhaps weaker than merely a runt or a rejected or neglected offspring.

 

I recall just a couple of years ago a beloved young zoo animal - not a newborn or baby, (I can't remember if it was a polar bear ??) died suddenly.

 

It had some sort of a previously undetected medical condition which caused its surprising early death.

 

And yet, after it died the zookeepers mentioned or recalled that it had been, interestingly-enough, rejected by its mother at birth years before.

 

Sometimes Nature still knows more than even advanced experts or science can tell us about things.


Not with pandas. It is actually an odd phenomenon with them and has nothing to do with anything being wrong with one of the cubs. The survival rate of panda cubs is very low due to the often indifference of the mother to nuture the babies or simply clumsiness. And when they have twins, they often only nuture one but if scientists switch them out without the mother knowing, she will unknowingly nuture both equally. Often times they have no interest in any of them.

 

They will often times crush them as well by accidentally rolling on them. This is one other reason why pandas survival is questionable. The mothers often have no interest in nuturing their own healthy babies.

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Re: One Panda Twin dies :(

[ Edited ]

@HappyDaze wrote:

@surfk wrote:

Sometimes it can be a sad yet simple case of the runt dying or the mother just refusing to feed it.

 

But often, there is a reason that the mother refuses a cub or newborn. Its not always just because there are two (or a litter). Often, a mother can sense that the rejected newborn has some other problem with it.

 

Its some deep instinctual thing which many animals possess - a sense of something we can't see or yet measure or gauge. But they sense it from birth.

 

So while it is sad, even bottle feeding it demonstrates that the little cub was perhaps weaker than merely a runt or a rejected or neglected offspring.

 

I recall just a couple of years ago a beloved young zoo animal - not a newborn or baby, (I can't remember if it was a polar bear ??) died suddenly.

 

It had some sort of a previously undetected medical condition which caused its surprising early death.

 

And yet, after it died the zookeepers mentioned or recalled that it had been, interestingly-enough, rejected by its mother at birth years before.

 

Sometimes Nature still knows more than even advanced experts or science can tell us about things.


Not with pandas. It is actually an odd phenomenon with them and has nothing to do with anything being wrong with one of the cubs. The survival rate of panda cubs is very low due to the often indifference of the mother to nuture the babies or simply clumsiness. And when they have twins, they often only nuture one but if scientists switch them out without the mother knowing, she will unknowingly nuture both equally. Often times they have no interest in any of them.

 

They will often times crush them as well by accidentally rolling on them. This is one other reason why pandas survival is questionable. The mothers often have no interest in nuturing their own healthy babies.


That is not neceesarily or assuredly accurate particularly in regard to pandas raised in captivity.

 

Even twin pandas have a very high survival rate - nearly the same as a single born panda.

 

In fact, as I sensed - and stated - the second cub is said to have suffered a medical condition which caused its death. It was not neglect or the mother refusing to nurse it necessarily.

 

The first clue was that such happens as a mother animal does indeed sense something is wrong with its offspring. Even if she so-called "helps it along" into death, there may be a reason for that.

 

The second clue is that the second cub still died despite feedings from zoo staff and also receiving probably the finest treatment available to any animal in captivity anywhere.

 

There have been actually dozens of twin pandas born in captivity over the past several decades. And almost all of them survived into adulthood.

 

The mystery as to what happened to this second cub will be made more clear after its autopsy. But pandas aren't psychopathic mothers. Even if the second panda may have received injuries while in its mother's care, it doesn't mean that the cub didn't have some medical issue which the mother detected or sensed intuitively. It is nature's way.


If it were merely a case of all panda mothers killing their second offspring, due to a panda's inability or disinterest in caring for more than one, the zoo never would have even attempted to
"switch" it with the stronger cub. It would just be a well established fact that the smaller cub would be in terrible peril with such a mother.

 

And it didn't survive even in the care of zoo experts despite the fact that most twins in captivity do survive. So something strange occurred in this situation. Something probably medical since the other theories would be that Xei Xiang is a killer panda mom or the zookeepers at the National Zoo don't know what they're doing.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/the-national-zoos-giant-panda-twins-are-special-to-dc-but-twin-c...

 

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Oh no!  So sad.  They were very optimistic that the two twins would survive last I read.  Nature at work, I guess.  Will be wonderful if one of the twins survives.  Fingers crossed for the remaining cub.

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Re: One Panda Twin dies :(

[ Edited ]

@NC Bandwagon wrote:

That's too bad. It's really, really hard for zoo keepers to keep baby pandas alive. Even harder to get pandas in general to breed and then actually conceive. They don't name the baby pandas until they're at least one year old, because they don't know if they will survive or not.


~~~

 

Actually, naming follows the Chinese tradition in which baby pandas are named as part of their 100 day celebration. 

 

Not a matter of not naming them for at least a year because they might not survive.

Sending Love & Blessings to the babies.



"Animals are not my whole world, but they have made my world whole" ~ Roger Caras
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Animal autopies are called necropsies. Autopies are on humans.

☼The best place to seek God is in a garden. You can dig for him there. GBShaw☼