Community Chat

[Mrsq2022]

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@Stray wrote:

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@Mrsq2022 wrote:

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@evelynblue wrote:

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@esmeraldagooch wrote:

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@MaggieMack wrote:

Mystrion, I don't doubt that there is a link to lead and violence. However, I think there is a greater link to violence and psychotropic drugs. I would post links, but don't want to go through the shaming. Googling it will provide multiple sources.

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Look at children killers in the news.  Many were playing violent video games and on drugs their doctors gave them for one reason or another.

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Which killers? I'd like to read about it on some reliable websites of peer reviewed studies. I have seen studies about video games being a problem but not prescribed meds.

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I'm curious too.  And I think that this type of example between psychotropic drugs and becoming a killer leads you to the chicken or the egg conundrum.  

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@Mrsq2022- actually many anti-depressants may cause bizarre behavior leading to violence such as : Halcion, Effexor, Prozac and amphetamines given for ADD as well and Lariam which is a common anti malarial prescribed for travel may cause violent behavior to name a few.   My husband wore the patch at sea and had bizarre behavior but not violent.  However I don't feel that is the main cause of violence in our society.  

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@Stray I am not an expert in this field, I'm just interested in the studies. Which lead me to the chicken or the egg conundrum when commit violent crimes. Is it the mental illness that leads people to exhibit violent behavior, or the drug they are prescribed to treat their mental illness?

I was also thinking of psychotropic drugs more in the antipsychotic drug realm - clearly people are prescribed antipsychotic drugs because they've exhibited psychotic behavior.  If they then continue to act psychotic after taking the drug, what is really to blame?

[Noel7]

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@evelynblue wrote:

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@esmeraldagooch wrote:

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@MaggieMack wrote:

Mystrion, I don't doubt that there is a link to lead and violence. However, I think there is a greater link to violence and psychotropic drugs. I would post links, but don't want to go through the shaming. Googling it will provide multiple sources.

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Look at children killers in the news.  Many were playing violent video games and on drugs their doctors gave them for one reason or another.

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Which killers? I'd like to read about it on some reliable websites of peer reviewed studies. I have seen studies about video games being a problem but not prescribed meds.

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@evelynblue

That's what I say.  I haven't read stories about child killers playing video games.  

The other day I did read about a gun advocate/blogger driving her son home.  He was in the back seat, young child, found a loaded gun on the floor of the car and shot his mother in the back. 

I wouldn't say that was his fault.  

[hckynut]

The causes of crime?  Dissolution of the family/loss of belief in a higher power/lack of education and common sense/picking bad role models/parents "do what I say, not what I do/easy access to alcohol and drugs(even the legal kind)/drug pushing gangs.

Mental illness?  Very little to do with the level of crime in our country. 

hckynut(john)

[Stray]

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@Mrsq2022 wrote:

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@Stray wrote:

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@Mrsq2022 wrote:

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@evelynblue wrote:

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@esmeraldagooch wrote:

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@MaggieMack wrote:

Mystrion, I don't doubt that there is a link to lead and violence. However, I think there is a greater link to violence and psychotropic drugs. I would post links, but don't want to go through the shaming. Googling it will provide multiple sources.

---

Look at children killers in the news.  Many were playing violent video games and on drugs their doctors gave them for one reason or another.

---

Which killers? I'd like to read about it on some reliable websites of peer reviewed studies. I have seen studies about video games being a problem but not prescribed meds.

---

I'm curious too.  And I think that this type of example between psychotropic drugs and becoming a killer leads you to the chicken or the egg conundrum.  

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@Mrsq2022- actually many anti-depressants may cause bizarre behavior leading to violence such as : Halcion, Effexor, Prozac and amphetamines given for ADD as well and Lariam which is a common anti malarial prescribed for travel may cause violent behavior to name a few.   My husband wore the patch at sea and had bizarre behavior but not violent.  However I don't feel that is the main cause of violence in our society.  

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@Stray I am not an expert in this field, I'm just interested in the studies. Which lead me to the chicken or the egg conundrum when commit violent crimes. Is it the mental illness that leads people to exhibit violent behavior, or the drug they are prescribed to treat their mental illness?

I was also thinking of psychotropic drugs more in the antipsychotic drug realm - clearly people are prescribed antipsychotic drugs because they've exhibited psychotic behavior.  If they then continue to act psychotic after taking the drug, what is really to blame?

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@Mrsq2022- yes, it is hard to determine which is the causative factor but some  psychotic people are not violent nor do they have violent tendencies but after taking certain drugs, they become violent or aggressive.  With antidepressives, sometimes it is a dosage issue that causes a depressed person to become aggressive.  But, one often doesn't really know which comes first.  In the prescribing information, there are warnings re aggressive behavior with certain drugs along with probabilities.   I did read somewhere that a good number of the school shooters were on prescribed medications.  I think a few took Ritalin but most people with ADD are not violent.  I would never venture to say prescribed drugs are a major cause of violence alone as there are too many other coexisting risk factors a person may experience at the same time.  

[gardenman]

I think the level of violence one sees these days is more due to the fact that it's viewed as acceptable behavior in many communities. Children raised in a community where such behavior is accceptable tend to adopt such behaviors. Things like "Stop Snitching,"  the "No Snitch Code," "The Code of the Street," etc. gives criminals immunity in many communitiies. They can murder someone in plain sight of witnesses and know that no one will tell the police who did it. With no witnesses coming forward, arrest and prosecution of the killers becomes nearly impossible. When kids see someone getting away with murder, literally in many cases, why should they obey the law? Any witness who does come forward tends to end up either shamed, or dead, so there's that also.

I don't doubt that lead plays some role, but I suspect it's not a huge role. I think the culture is more to blame. Many kids are being raised in a culture where violence isn't punished, no matter how extreme it is. Those tarnished aren't those committing the violent acts, but those reporting them and testifying against the offenders. I strongly suspect that's a far bigger factor in violence than lead.

[Isobel Archer]

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@gardenman wrote:

I think the level of violence one sees these days is more due to the fact that it's viewed as acceptable behavior in many communities. Children raised in a community where such behavior is accceptable tend to adopt such behaviors. Things like "Stop Snitching,"  the "No Snitch Code," "The Code of the Street," etc. gives criminals immunity in many communitiies. They can murder someone in plain sight of witnesses and know that no one will tell the police who did it. With no witnesses coming forward, arrest and prosecution of the killers becomes nearly impossible. When kids see someone getting away with murder, literally in many cases, why should they obey the law? Any witness who does come forward tends to end up either shamed, or dead, so there's that also.

I don't doubt that lead plays some role, but I suspect it's not a huge role. I think the culture is more to blame. Many kids are being raised in a culture where violence isn't punished, no matter how extreme it is. Those tarnished aren't those committing the violent acts, but those reporting them and testifying against the offenders. I strongly suspect that's a far bigger factor in violence than lead.

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Yes, as the cousin of the home invasion buglar who was shot by the homeowner said:

“You have to look at it from every child’s point of view that was raised in the hood,” said Harris. “You have to understand… how he going to get his money to have clothes to go to school? You have to look at it from his point-of-view.”

Not sure lead in the water caused that point of view.

[chrystaltree]

No. 

[Lucky Charm]

So it's older lead pipes that perhaps have corroded, rusted, that is the problem?

Because if it's simply lead pipes/lead paint used in homes and elsewhere, then our grand parents and great grandparents would have all been very violent?

Mine weren't.

There was poverty in my ancestor's past, that I am sure of.  But they were hardworking people and from what I know and am told, very loving.

[chrystaltree]

No.  I think there are a lot of reason for crime,illegal drugs are big cause of thefts and street crime.  I don't even think lead pipes are a big problem for much of the country and I don't think lead exposure leads to violent behavior.   

[silkyk]

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@hckynut wrote:

The causes of crime?  Dissolution of the family/loss of belief in a higher power/lack of education and common sense/picking bad role models/parents "do what I say, not what I do/easy access to alcohol and drugs(even the legal kind)/drug pushing gangs.

Mental illness?  Very little to do with the level of crime in our country. 

hckynut(john)

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Hey hckynutjohn! You hit the nail right on the head! Lots of reasons but I think the main one is the dissolution of the family.