Re: How to ensure that you do not get the job.....

LilacTree · ‎03-25-2012

After I retired and moved to the shore to be closer to three of my girls who still lived there (only one remains there), I realized I still had to have an income for lots a reasons I won't go into. The first job I called about was some distance away, but it sounded interesting.

I have a very young voice for my age, so I called and we made an appointment for the interview. He was a lawyer and I was very familiar with working in law offices, so I thought my resume would look acceptable. It had been 24 years since I had interviewed for a job, as that is how long I worked for the CPA firm I retired from.

This guy was frank and to the point. Within five minutes, he said "You present yourself well, and you have a lot of experience . . . in fact, too much. I hate to say it, but I doubt you will find a job anywhere."

I said nothing, as I felt my face go red and the tears ready to pop. I just got up from the chair and left his office. And cried half the way home.

I know what I should have said, but this guy left me speechless.

Formerly Ford1224
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Elie Wiesel 1986

Justina rae · ‎01-02-2015

It may very well be an exercise in futility chickenbutt (and others) but wouldn't the OP be doing a good thing, a positive thing for someone obviously in need. I think it would take all of 60 seconds to explain the reason the interviewee is not getting the job and make the suggestion to do better so no great amount of time taken away from more deserving things. It is definitely a potentially very teachable moment. It's not a matter of being her "mother" or shouldering the responsibility. It's a simple act of kindness that could make a difference in a person's life and make the person doing it feel good. If we continue to allow or condone bad behavior by ignoring it altogether...how does anyone become a better person? And BTW a good interviewer or human resources person will give feedback and not just shrug the person off with a pre-planned reason.

CatsyCline · ‎07-24-2013

curious for what sort of position is this candidate interviewing

and why is the OP obligated to interview her?

hope its not something like triage, medical coding or phlebotomy!! aghhh

chickenbutt · ‎03-09-2010

On 4/3/2015 Justina rae said:
It may very well be an exercise in futility chickenbutt (and others) but wouldn't the OP be doing a good thing, a positive thing for someone obviously in need. I think it would take all of 60 seconds to explain the reason the interviewee is not getting the job and make the suggestion to do better so no great amount of time taken away from more deserving things. It's not a matter of being her "mother" or shouldering the responsibility. It's a simple act of kindness that could make a difference in a person's life and make the person doing it feel good. If we continue to allow or condone bad behavior by ignoring it altogether...how does anyone become a better person?

Oh, so true! She's letting her come for the appointment anyway so it's the perfect idea to explain why she is not getting the job. ITA on that. I thought people meant that they felt they could get the person to see the error of her ways.

Granted, I could be ever so slightly (heh) cynical. Been around a while and dealt with all kinds of people on all levels, probably like many people here. I play the percentages as a rule and if I gave somebody that many chances I would clearly see what that person is like.

As cynical as I actually am, I'm somebody who would give a few chances but at the point to which the person has burned me a few times, I tend to be 100% out. It's probably just an extension of the survivor skills I had to develop since I was a very small child. I'm a people watcher and you learn a lot that way.

I totally respect the notion that maybe something the OP could say might help that person to see how her behavior is costing her a job, among probably a lot of other things. You never know, right? I just guess I had to learn at an early age to cut my losses once something became that difficult, with somebody like that. I don't even think I know differently. My mind is not run on emotions, for non-emotional purposes though. I'm very much a clinical and analytical thinker.

I actually HAVE given people like that so many chances to do right by others, probably so many that at this point I feel like it's probably pretty much 100% impossible to get them to see the POV of others. So I'm not all bad.

CatsyCline · ‎07-24-2013

On 4/3/2015 Justina rae said:
It may very well be an exercise in futility chickenbutt (and others) but wouldn't the OP be doing a good thing, a positive thing for someone obviously in need. I think it would take all of 60 seconds to explain the reason the interviewee is not getting the job and make the suggestion to do better so no great amount of time taken away from more deserving things. It is definitely a potentially very teachable moment. It's not a matter of being her "mother" or shouldering the responsibility. It's a simple act of kindness that could make a difference in a person's life and make the person doing it feel good. If we continue to allow or condone bad behavior by ignoring it altogether...how does anyone become a better person?

this is a business and a very large healthcare campus (iirc)

the hiring managers really can't go into details like that. it leaves the company open to litigation.

that's why they send letters or emails thanking the candidate for their time, that their credentials are impressive but they have identified a candidate with qualifications that more closely match the requirements of the position.

Justina rae · ‎01-02-2015

Chickenbutt - I've also been very cynical most of my life as a result of people letting me down. I'm trying (in my older age) to turn things around. Maybe have a more positive outlook. Don't know if it'll work but I'm trying.

Ashleigh dupray - I can't imagine how telling a candidate the real reason they didn't get the job was because they missed/cancelled "x" number of appointments and that shows a lack of responsibility, etc. would open the door to any litigation. I think giving that feedback is important to the candidate rather than letting her go on her merry way. Maybe she will learn a hard lesson having lost the job over it!

chickenbutt · ‎03-09-2010

Justina - That's very honorable! I think I've allowed myself to stay stuck a little bit. I mean, I'm not a mean or exclusive person. I think I just see a situation and 90% of the time my mind goes on ahead and calculates it out, giving me the bottom line and I have to decide whether or not I want to invest.

And yeah, I TOTALLY get the part about people letting us down. I could write a book! hehe

One nugget of thought I've taken from you is about positivity. Sometimes I fall into negativity before I realize it. I'm going to think about that. I have clinical depression and PTSD and I had the best psychologist who left me with some great tools. I'm adding the simple notion of positivity that I'm sure will come in handy sometimes. Just having that little kernel in my mind might just help me a lot. So, thank you!

CatsyCline · ‎07-24-2013

On 4/3/2015 Justina rae said:
Chickenbutt - I've also been very cynical most of my life as a result of people letting me down. I'm trying (in my older age) to turn things around. Maybe have a more positive outlook. Don't know if it'll work but I'm trying.

Ashleigh dupray - I can't imagine how telling a candidate the real reason they didn't get the job was because they missed/cancelled "x" number of appointments and that shows a lack of responsibility, etc. would open the door to any litigation. I think giving that feedback is important to the candidate rather than letting her go on her merry way. Maybe she will learn a hard lesson having lost the job over it!

HR usually screens first - Hiring manager has to be very careful in their wording. Neither is there to teach, coach or criticize. The focus is on discussing the candidate and their qualifications. Any criticism or observations outside of the resume, job description are subjective, add in the possibility of protected class concerns...its just not good practice to get personal.

Justina rae · ‎01-02-2015

On 4/3/2015 chickenbutt said:
Justina - That's very honorable! I think I've allowed myself to stay stuck a little bit. I mean, I'm not a mean or exclusive person. I think I just see a situation and 90% of the time my mind goes on ahead and calculates it out, giving me the bottom line and I have to decide whether or not I want to invest.

And yeah, I TOTALLY get the part about people letting us down. I could write a book! hehe

One nugget of thought I've taken from you is about positivity. Sometimes I fall into negativity before I realize it. I'm going to think about that. I have clinical depression and PTSD and I had the best psychologist who left me with some great tools. I'm adding the simple notion of positivity that I'm sure will come in handy sometimes. Just having that little kernel in my mind might just help me a lot. So, thank you!

We are a lot alike chickenbutt. When one has been let down so often in one's life...one almost automatically then plays out any future situation in a similar negative way. In advance no less. I was in that rut for a long time and realized it wasn't doing me much good. I'm still a work in progress. It's very nice to meet you!

(sorry for the O/T everyone)