Community Chat

[Kalli]

If someone takes offense, why not just apologize and let them know it wasn't meant to be that way?

Sincere Question: What are the native Hawaiians asking for?

I guess I need to watch the news more but truly haven't seen this so I'm curious.

[NoelSeven]

On 4/4/2015 Kalli said:

If someone takes offense, why not just apologize and let them know it wasn't meant to be that way?

Sincere Question: What are the native Hawaiians asking for?

I guess I need to watch the news more but truly haven't seen this so I'm curious.

It was Raven's post, so I won't remember the details as well as she can. But if I recall correctly, the US government wants to build a huge telescope construction on sacred Hawaiian land.

Apparently, its on or in a volcano. The Hawaiian council or group has said no. The land is too precious to them.

We have taken so much from them, I hope we don't force this.

[NoelSeven]

Here's the story.

The protestors were arrested... on their own land.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/clash-over-telescope-at-sacred-hawaiian-site-intensifies/ar-AAap34...

[SuiGeneris]

Background information on the latest protests:

14,000 feet above the Pacific Ocean, the White Mountain bears the scars of decades-old conflict. Mauna Kea (“White Mountain” in the Hawaiian Language) is at the center of a debate between astronomers, Native Hawaiians, and environmental advocates. Mauna Kea has, since time immemorial, been the single most sacred earthly location in Native Hawaiian religion. The summit is also a rich and valuable (but fragile) ecosystem, home to a myriad of species that are found nowhere else on Earth.

However, in the 1960’s, a consortium of Western scientists identified the summit of the mountain as the ideal location for astronomical observation. Working on “ceded lands” which were taken from the Hawaiian people after the overthrow of their kingdom by European and American merchants, these scientists erected the world’s premiere observatory on the summit. The invaluable discoveries made by the telescopes atop Mauna Kea have revolutionized the way we understand our place in the universe. The story of Mauna Kea is a complex one, posing questions about the ethics of West vs. East, science vs. religion, and progress vs. conservation.

A dormant shield volcano on the Big Island of Hawaii, Mauna Kea rises 13,796 feet above sea level, making it the highest point in the Pacific Basin. When measured from sea floor to summit, it’s the tallest mountain in the world- 4,000 feet taller than Mt. Everest. The peak of the mountain towers over the rest of the island and the Pacific Ocean beyond, facing a slightly smaller shield volcano and sacred site, the still-active Mauna Loa. The whole mountain is of great environmental, geological, and aesthetic importance to the human population of the Big Island. The mountain holds the headwaters for the whole island, the primary source of fresh water for its inhabitants. Its massive slopes are home to several fragile ecosystems, dependent on narrow ranges of elevation and climactic conditions. What’s more, Mauna Kea’s distinctive beauty and diversity is a strong draw for tourists. The Secretary of the Interior has named it a National Natural Landmark, stating that it’s “the most majestic expression of shield volcanism in the Hawaiian Archipelago, if not the world.”

To read the entire article: http://www.pluralism.org/reports/view/21

[Kalli]

On 4/4/2015 NoelSeven said:

On 4/4/2015 Kalli said:

If someone takes offense, why not just apologize and let them know it wasn't meant to be that way?

Sincere Question: What are the native Hawaiians asking for?

I guess I need to watch the news more but truly haven't seen this so I'm curious.

It was Raven's post, so I won't remember the details as well as she can. But if I recall correctly, the US government wants to build a huge telescope construction on sacred Hawaiian land.

Apparently, its on or in a volcano. The Hawaiian council or group has said no. The land is too precious to them.

We have taken so much from them, I hope we don't force this.

ok, I read it. Seems there must be other places this can be constructed. Can't say I blame them for opposing this.

[SugarNSpice]

It ""is sacred because it is where their creation story begins."" and ""All of the highest points in the islands are considered the home of deities""

[SuiGeneris]

On 4/4/2015 Kalli said:

On 4/4/2015 NoelSeven said:

On 4/4/2015 Kalli said:

If someone takes offense, why not just apologize and let them know it wasn't meant to be that way?

Sincere Question: What are the native Hawaiians asking for?

I guess I need to watch the news more but truly haven't seen this so I'm curious.

It was Raven's post, so I won't remember the details as well as she can. But if I recall correctly, the US government wants to build a huge telescope construction on sacred Hawaiian land.

Apparently, its on or in a volcano. The Hawaiian council or group has said no. The land is too precious to them.

We have taken so much from them, I hope we don't force this.

ok, I read it. Seems there must be other places this can be constructed. Can't say I blame them for opposing this.

Most astronomers and astrophysicists would disagree with you, unfortunately.

From Encyclopedia Britannica:

Mauna Kea Observatory, astronomical observatory in Hawaii, U.S., that has become one of the most important in the world because of its outstanding observational conditions. The Mauna Kea Observatory is operated by the University of Hawaii and lies at an elevation of 4,205 meters (13,796 feet) atop the peak of Mauna Kea, a dormant volcano on north-central Hawaii island.

Mauna Kea is the site of many major telescopes because its viewing conditions are the finest of any Earth-based observatory. The site lies at an elevation almost twice that of any other major observatory and above 40 percent of the Earth’s atmosphere; there is thus less intervening atmosphere to obscure the light from distant stellar objects. A high proportion of nights at Mauna Kea are clear, calm, and cloudless owing to local weather peculiarities and the fact that the mountaintop lies above cloud cover most of the time. The high elevation and extremely dry, clear air make the site ideal for observing astronomical objects that emit radiation at far-infrared wavelengths, which are easily blocked by atmospheric water vapour.

[SuiGeneris]

What isn't being said is that there are already buildings and observatories in place on top of Mauna Kea.

The present issue is dealing with the new construction of a Mega-Telescope and the renewal of the University of Hawaii's 65-year master lease of "the Mauna Kea Science Reserve and Halepohaku facilities, which currently house thirteen observatories and telescopes, representing research universities and governments from around the world, all on top of the dormant Mauna Kea volcano.

Scheduled to become operational in 2022, the Thirty Meter Telescope would be the largest and most powerful telescope in the world, over 30 meters in diameter, 18 stories high, with ten times the power of the Hubble Space Telescope." [Source: nbcnews.com]

[SugarNSpice]

I'd be willing to bet if you put up one of these telescopes next to the Statue of Christ in Brazil there would be an uproar.

I'll bet if you put a telescope dead center in the garden tomb there would be an uproar.

It seems insulting that some only see it important when it comes to something that is scared to their belief or faith.

[Kalli]

On 4/4/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 4/4/2015 Kalli said:

On 4/4/2015 NoelSeven said:

On 4/4/2015 Kalli said:

If someone takes offense, why not just apologize and let them know it wasn't meant to be that way?

Sincere Question: What are the native Hawaiians asking for?

I guess I need to watch the news more but truly haven't seen this so I'm curious.

It was Raven's post, so I won't remember the details as well as she can. But if I recall correctly, the US government wants to build a huge telescope construction on sacred Hawaiian land.

Apparently, its on or in a volcano. The Hawaiian council or group has said no. The land is too precious to them.

We have taken so much from them, I hope we don't force this.

ok, I read it. Seems there must be other places this can be constructed. Can't say I blame them for opposing this.

Most astronomers and astrophysicists would disagree with you, unfortunately.

From Encyclopedia Britannica:

Mauna Kea Observatory, astronomical observatory in Hawaii, U.S., that has become one of the most important in the world because of its outstanding observational conditions. The Mauna Kea Observatory is operated by the University of Hawaii and lies at an elevation of 4,205 meters (13,796 feet) atop the peak of Mauna Kea, a dormant volcano on north-central Hawaii island.

Mauna Kea is the site of many major telescopes because its viewing conditions are the finest of any Earth-based observatory. The site lies at an elevation almost twice that of any other major observatory and above 40 percent of the Earth’s atmosphere; there is thus less intervening atmosphere to obscure the light from distant stellar objects. A high proportion of nights at Mauna Kea are clear, calm, and cloudless owing to local weather peculiarities and the fact that the mountaintop lies above cloud cover most of the time. The high elevation and extremely dry, clear air make the site ideal for observing astronomical objects that emit radiation at far-infrared wavelengths, which are easily blocked by atmospheric water vapour.

Yes, I'm sure they all disagree, which is why this is happening in the first place.

I can be a Pollyanna sometimes but it just seems that we should be able to respect the concerns of others, especially native people who are expressing a sincere reason for opposing this construction.

And I can take off my rose colored glasses and say I have a feeling the native Hawaiian's concerns will NOT keep this from happening.