Community Chat

[rarejan]

On 3/29/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

Justice is one of God's qualities so that would make Him is the epitome of fairness. You and I will just have to agree to disagree. And Satan was never referred to as Lucifer.

"Justice" and "fairness" are not the same thing.

Justice is objective, "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

Fairness is subjective, "based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."

Since God doesn't have "personal feelings, tastes or opinions," He cannot possible be "fair" and be God.

ETA: That is why we are supposed to administer "justice" in a court of law, without considering what we consider to be "fair." I should know, since I recently sat on a jury in a federal district court, and I was never told to decide on the basis of what I considered "fair."

Yes!

[Pashmina_1]

You may want to rethink that. There are scriptures that refer to God's emotions. Here are a few...

Genesis 6:6

Proverbs 27:11

Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/29/2015 rarejan said:

On 3/29/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

Justice is one of God's qualities so that would make Him is the epitome of fairness. You and I will just have to agree to disagree. And Satan was never referred to as Lucifer.

"Justice" and "fairness" are not the same thing.

Justice is objective, "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

Fairness is subjective, "based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."

Since God doesn't have "personal feelings, tastes or opinions," He cannot possible be "fair" and be God.

ETA: That is why we are supposed to administer "justice" in a court of law, without considering what we consider to be "fair." I should know, since I recently sat on a jury in a federal district court, and I was never told to decide on the basis of what I considered "fair."

Yes!

Thank you, rarejan!

We do seem to agree on most things.

[Pashmina_1]

On 3/29/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

Justice is one of God's qualities so that would make Him is the epitome of fairness. You and I will just have to agree to disagree. And Satan was never referred to as Lucifer.

Who then is Lucifer if he is not Satan? Isaiah 14:12-17 NKJV:

The Fall of Lucifer

¹² “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
¹³ For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
¹⁴ I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
¹⁵ Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

¹⁶ “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
¹⁷ Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’

Isaiah was was not speaking of Satan but the was referring to the King of Babylon.

[rarejan]

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

You may want to rethink that. There are scriptures that refer to God's emotions. Here are a few...

Genesis 6:6

Proverbs 27:11

Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5

Only if one's premise is the Bible in its literal translation. There are those who don't take the Bible literally.

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/29/2015 rarejan said:

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

You may want to rethink that. There are scriptures that refer to God's emotions. Here are a few...

Genesis 6:6

Proverbs 27:11

Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5

Only if one's premise is the Bible in its literal translation. There are those who don't take the Bible literally.

I, too, disagree with your interpretation of those scriptures, particularly Proverbs 27:11. Solomon wrote the Book of Proverbs, not God. God gave him the "wisdom" to write Proverbs, but Solomon wrote the words, "Be wise, my son, and bring joy to my heart; then I can answer anyone who treats me with contempt."

I don't know what the verses in Jeremiah have to do with God's "feelings."

The verses in Genesis that speak to God's "regret" are interesting only because I think they prove my point about justice vs. fairness. God didn't let His "feelings" [fairness] guide Him in dealing with His "regret." His "feelings" could have moved him to destroy the world entirely, wiping human beings off the face of the earth, if not possibly destroying the world entirely, removing it from the universe. Instead, He was objective [justice], and flooded the earth for a time, saving mankind in the form of Noah and his family, along with two of each kind of animal, thus restoring earth and its inhabitants when the flood receded. That's justice [putting emotions aside], not fairness [allowing emotions to rule decision making].

ETA: I was taught that Lucifer, Satan and the Devil are synonymous. I'll have to ask my son [Presbyterian minister] what he thinks, since he's been to seminary and I haven't. I will agree to disagree with you on this subject, for the time being.

Another ETA: I will concede that God possibly has "feelings," only because human beings have feelings, and we were made in His image. However, He does not allow His feelings to interfere with His justice. He is just, not fair. There is a huge difference.

[SugarNSpice]

On 3/27/2015 Sister Golden Hair said:

We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan.

I'm sorry but that is a load of malarkey.

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/29/2015 SugarNSpice said:

On 3/27/2015 Sister Golden Hair said:

We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan.

I'm sorry but that is a load of malarkey.

"We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan."

I think this goes beyond the concept of "predestination," taking a hard nosedive into hard determinism, "a view on free will which holds that determinism is true, and that it is incompatible with free will, and, therefore, that free will does not exist." [Definition provided by google]

[SnowPink]

On 3/29/2015 rarejan said:

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

You may want to rethink that. There are scriptures that refer to God's emotions. Here are a few...

Genesis 6:6

Proverbs 27:11

Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5

Only if one's premise is the Bible in its literal translation. There are those who don't take the Bible literally.

I don't know anyone who takes the entire Bible as a literal translation. If that was true, they would believe that Jesus is really a lamb, we are really sheep and goats and the communion bread and cup is actually Jesus' body and blood.

[Pashmina_1]

On 3/29/2015 SnowPink said:

On 3/29/2015 rarejan said:

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

You may want to rethink that. There are scriptures that refer to God's emotions. Here are a few...

Genesis 6:6

Proverbs 27:11

Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5

Only if one's premise is the Bible in its literal translation. There are those who don't take the Bible literally.

I don't know anyone who takes the entire Bible as a literal translation. If that was true, they would believe that Jesus is really a lamb, we are really sheep and goats and the communion bread and cup is actually Jesus' body and blood.

Exactly. But it stands to reason God is not a cold unfeeling God either particularly if you desire to have a personal relationship with Him.