@Cakers3 wrote:
@Sooner wrote:
Excuse me here but it seems everyone that worked around the old creep knew what was going on and DID NOTHING about it. There is a LOT of blame here to pass around.
He pranced around some woman nude and she kept working for him? REALLY?
Sorry, but you are talking about the moral code at a whole work place here, not just the behavior of one man. If you see a child abused and don't do anything about it, you are guilty.
I think we need to examine the behavior and standards of an awful lot of people. A LOT of people knew this stuff was going in many instances and accepted it as a fact.
Also, we are convicting people from accusations. You can accuse a lot of people of a lot of things and ruin their lives.
Not taking up for the abusers here, but I am saying there is a far larger problem in this country than these named men. The problem is that WE as a group have allowed them to do it, and often individuals have benefitted from the behavior, and they should be called out too.
So what are the standards? Who is responsible for behvaior between individuals and in the workplace? I think that is the REAL conversation here, and we aren't talking about that so much or at least I haven't seen it. But I don't watch that much tv so maybe it is me.
The crime is that we have allowed it.
@Sooner You have made some good points about others doing nothing about the abuser.
However, the blame rests squarely on the person who performed the act, not the victim.
I don't know how old you are, and it doesn't matter. However I remember remarks made by a few crude male students in high school and there really wasn't anybody to turn to back then. The comments made us uncomfortable but girls back then didn't speak up. The reasons do not matter-we just didn't.
Now college was different-pouring a beer on the head of a sexist pig was perfectly acceptable but we still didn't report the behavior.
We are looking at accusations when harassment laws were non-existent. Who would ever report a rape, let alone a rape by a co-worker? Or any type of sexual assault.
Some men AND women do not view this type of behavior as any big of a deal.
And there ARE women who will sexually banter back and forth with male co-workers.
So who will step up for the victims when the victims have no recourse? Even today it can turn into a horror show for the accuser.
I feel so badly for any person who had to deal with any of this; and while accusations can be thrown out there without proof, it still merits a serious look at work place sexual harassment as well as sexual harassament in other places such as schools.
@Cakers3 I am old enough to have marched for the ERA. I have my grandmother's voter registration from the instant women got the vote. I have had a successful career and now realize that you have to be tough to make it in the world: if you are of color, a woman, a hillbilly, not attractive, overweight, have a bad accent and a number of other things that elicit prejudice and ill treatment. I come from a long line of tough and independent women. I was raised that way.
Ill treatment of course is not right, but I understand that a person simply has to do the best they can in life because it isn't fair and it isn't easy. Things don't change until the culture changes. harassment won't change until enough women won't go along with it. ALso, you have to figure out what the real definition of sx harassment it and more clearly define that. It can't be everything. . .
Actually it won't stop because sx has been a bartering tool since the earth was populated and will continue to be. And remember, men can be victims as well. Therefore, to ensure it isn't a factor depends a lot on the individual and how they handle it and respond to it (of course I am not talking about forced actions here). Note that Charlie Rose seemed to have stopped with at least some of those who made it clear that it was a no go--at least in some situations, I haven't read everything about this.
The most effective way to deal with it now is to emphasize to young women how to respond to unwanted advances, and not to go along with banter leading up to it or say that is it not wanted early on
Not saying what is "right" here, just stating my opinion that was formed through many school and working years and what I have observed. I can't imagine how you deal with it in today's culture really. In a world where "whatever" is permitted, how do you even draw a line? Just look at movies and tv. You don't see many where someone says no do you? Can you imagine the social pressure on males and females?
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