Re: California Chrome wins !

terrier3 · ‎03-10-2010

On 5/4/2014 KittyLouWhoToo said:

As I have said (I think a few times), I work in this business. I've read more about these issues than you've ever even thought about, I'm quite certain. I have stated I am against doping. I am behind the movement WITHIN THE INDUSTRY to make sweeping reforms.

My issue with YOU is your insistence that EVERYONE in this business is guilty. You are wrong. It is unfair to convict everyone.

You know better than I do, and I applaud you for admitting there are problems, and not sweeping them under the rug. Consider me educated and thank you for your insight.

I still don't enjoy watching racing the way I did when I was young.

I'll stick to watching equestrian jumping events for now.

QueenDanceALot · ‎04-18-2013

On 5/4/2014 terrier3 said:
On 5/4/2014 KittyLouWhoToo said:
As I have said (I think a few times), I work in this business. I've read more about these issues than you've ever even thought about, I'm quite certain. I have stated I am against doping. I am behind the movement WITHIN THE INDUSTRY to make sweeping reforms.

My issue with YOU is your insistence that EVERYONE in this business is guilty. You are wrong. It is unfair to convict everyone.

You know better than I do, and I applaud you for admitting there are problems, and not sweeping them under the rug. Consider me educated and thank you for your insight.

I still don't enjoy watching racing the way I did when I was young.

I'll stick to watching equestrian jumping events for now.

FWIW, I don't enjoy it like I used to, either, terrier, as I am aware of the problems. I am also not a fan of show horse events, either, having worked around eventing and dressage people. Some of them are not exactly clean in their practices, either. Nor kind.

I have a love/hate relationship with the TB business.

focksie · ‎03-04-2012

On 5/3/2014 terrier3 said:
On 5/3/2014 ednapsych said:
On 5/3/2014 terrier3 said:
I love his story too...but look at how dehydrated he is in that picture...he looks like a bodybuilder in a contest...not healthy for man nor beast!

I don't think that is dehydration ...that is pure lean muscle. A beautiful specimen of a fabulous horse. What a magical story!

That's a horse on Lasix...they lose up to 30 pounds of fluid before a race.

They are all on drugs.

Why would it be advantageous for horses to be so dehydrated for a race? I would think they need to be well hydrated for energy. I know I'm zonked when I'm dehydrated. I'd assume it's the same for any animal.

terrier3 · ‎03-10-2010

On 5/4/2014 focksie said:
On 5/3/2014 terrier3 said:
On 5/3/2014 ednapsych said:
On 5/3/2014 terrier3 said:
I love his story too...but look at how dehydrated he is in that picture...he looks like a bodybuilder in a contest...not healthy for man nor beast!

I don't think that is dehydration ...that is pure lean muscle. A beautiful specimen of a fabulous horse. What a magical story!

That's a horse on Lasix...they lose up to 30 pounds of fluid before a race.

They are all on drugs.

Why would it be advantageous for horses to be so dehydrated for a race? I would think they need to be well hydrated for energy. I know I'm zonked when I'm dehydrated. I'd assume it's the same for any animal. ${#emotions_dlg.confused1}$

It has something to do with the great pressure running places on their lungs. They often bleed through their noses if they have too many fluids.

So they are dehydrated by being given drugs before a race (plus drugs to "hep" them up too, abd other drugs to calm them down)

Have you ever heard of the phrase "P-- like a racehorse"? They can lose up to 30 pounds of water before a race, after getting drugs.

focksie · ‎03-04-2012

I just read a little about Lasix in race horses. It causes vasodilation so that they can breathe better, avoiding broken blood vessels in the lungs. Unlike steroids in other sports, Lasix is declared and listed for public notice.

terrier3 · ‎03-10-2010

On 5/4/2014 focksie said:
I just read a little about Lasix in race horses. It causes vasodilation so that they can breathe better, avoiding broken blood vessels in the lungs. Unlike steroids in other sports, Lasix is declared and listed for public notice.

It is also not humane and is banned in Europe.

focksie · ‎03-04-2012

On 5/4/2014 terrier3 said:
On 5/4/2014 focksie said:
I just read a little about Lasix in race horses. It causes vasodilation so that they can breathe better, avoiding broken blood vessels in the lungs. Unlike steroids in other sports, Lasix is declared and listed for public notice.

It is also not humane and is banned in Europe.

If a drug is needed to make it safe for horses to race, it would seem so.

conlt · ‎03-16-2010

I don't like racing but I talked to a friend of mine who has been in the horse world for years and these horses love racing. Anyway, I love the story behind California Chrome and the men who own him seem genuinely nice. I read somewhere when other owners and big wigs at the Derby were staying in $1000 a night hotel rooms, they were staying at the Hampton Inn. They are working people so it was nice to see them come out on top with California Chrome. What a pretty horse he is too.

boby · ‎01-12-2012

Focksie et al: Lasix is a vasodilator and a diuretic. It does have therapeutic value, but it also induces fluid loss, which reduces blood pressure and makes it less likely that horses will bleed during a race.

It does not drastically dehydrate horses. That would be dangerous. If you remember Big Brown's disastrous performance in the Belmont Stakes a few years ago it is commonly believed that he "OD'd" on Lasix on a very hot day, and lost so much fluid that he was kind of "punch drunk."

Lasix is also commonly administered to humans to relieve congestive heart failure.

It is legal in most racing jurisdictions, although some are getting away from its use. California recently turned down the Breeders Cup races for 2014 because the BC people wouldn't agree to its use in all races, insisting that it be banned for use in all 2 year old races. It is estimated that denial of the Breeders Cup races cost the local economy of SoCal about $60 million. That's how addicted some trainers out there are to Lasix for their horses.

There are lots of trainers who would love to see it banned but continue to use it, because they would be at a competitive disadvantage if they didn't. It is a PED. That is why the Racing Form lists Lasix users, especially first-time users. Lots of trainers and owners don't use it, but there is so much pressure put on them by some track vets to use, because the vet gets about $30-35 per pop.

John Veitch, a former top-notch trainer for some of the best outfits in the game and an articulate and brutally honest individual, once said that he got out of training when racing went from "My horse against your horse to my chemist against your chemist."

And that's part of the Lasix story.