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Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,526
Registered: ‎06-17-2015

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

She will be convicted on facts.

 

Her arrogance may be annoying but that is not a reason to think she deserves jail time.

Only a conviction regarding breaking a law(s) can determine what she deserves.

 

I would hate to think attitude alone could incarcerate a person.

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh
Honored Contributor
Posts: 24,203
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

Never underestimate a jury. So far we've mainly heard the prosecution's side of events. The jury will hear both the prosecution and defense and decide between them. The fact that the government has been so anxious to settle (for $20,000 and limited to no jail time with one year supervised release in Huffman's case) makes me suspect the prosecutors know there are holes in their case. Suspects facing twenty plus years in prison and a quarter million dollars or more in penalties don't generally get offered deals like that if the government has a strong case. If the government's case is leaky enough, this may never go to trial. The prosecution may end up dropping the charges rather than lose in court. We'll have to see what happens, but I would not be shocked at any outcome.

 

The indications are that the government has doubts about winning the case. Doubts strong enough to offer very favorable plea deals. The defendants who opted not to accept those plea deals no doubt are confident of an acquittal. Why? Are they really stupid, or are they aware of the holes in the government's case? Time will tell, but the indications to me are that acquittal is more likely than a conviction based on what we've seen from the deals the prosecution has offered.

Fly!!! Eagles!!! Fly!!!
Honored Contributor
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Registered: ‎06-17-2015

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

@gardenman   I disagree.

 

Deals are made all the time in cases that could end up with extended jail time and over the top fines.

 

While we know how much jail time could be imposed these are not hardened criminals.

 

It does the prosecution no good to drag this out anymore than it does any good for the defendants to not take a plea.

 

The prosecution is under no obligation to push for the maximum penalty for any of these defendants; I believe it isn't a matter of holes in their case but a matter of getting this done and finished.

 

If all the lawyers involved thought the cases were weak, no defendants would have taken any pleas.  I believe it's a matter of stepping up, owning your stuff, taking the deal, and moving on.

 

Or else they all had really carpy lawyers.

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh
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Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

@Cakers3 

 

The thing is, the legal fees of those not taking the plea deals will be far larger than what the government asked for in compensation. If you truly felt there's a chance you'd be found guilty, you'd jump at the plea deal. Even if you knew you were innocent you probably should take the plea deal. It's better than what you'd get after being convicted and would cost less than fighting the case. Just a few of those charged accepted the plea deal, the majority chose to fight the case. Why? Are they all stupid? I don't think so.

 

They clearly don't want this on their record, but if you're a CEO or an actress does having a relatively minor felony on your record harm you in  a major way? Not really. People have short memories. So, why fight it? They've clearly lost in the court of public opinion, but they fight it still. Why? My guess is they know they can win in the courtroom. In fact, I suspect they know they will win.

 

Deals do get done all the time, but typically because the person accused knows they're guilty and there's a better than average chance they'll be found guilty. If you're caught on camera robbing a bank and you're offered a plea deal, you take the deal. You know they have you dead to rights, so you take the deal.

 

Prosecutors get paid the same no matter whether a case is settled or fought all the way through the courts. There's no real benefit to them to settle on a case they're confident they'll win. These cases will be featured a lot in the news and earn the prosecutors fame for being the one trying these criminals. Look at Marcia Clark and Chris Darden and how they benefitted from the OJ case, even though they lost. If you're a prosecutor with an eye on a future in politics (and many/most are) why not prosecute a high profile case to the fullest extent?

 

Unless you know there is no case. Unless you know you can't prove the charges you've made. Unless you know you could end up being a laughingstock for trying the case.

 

To me, and this is just my opinion, I don't think the prosecution has a solid case and I think they know it. I think they offered very sweet plea deals in the hope that they wouldn't get exposed in court. I think they thought, "No one in their right mind will turn down these deals and we can save face." Now the majority of those charged have turned down the plea deals and are wanting a trial, at great personal expense, and the prosecution finds themselves in a tough spot. Do they march into court and try a weak case, knowing they may (probably will) lose? 

 

My gut says the prosecution knows they can't win these cases. I could be wrong. Maybe they were just being really, really nice to those charged. Maybe those charged are all brain-dead idiots who would rather waste a million dollars defending themselves than pay $20,000 in restitution. Maybe those charged don't mind the threat of twenty to forty years in prison over the possibility of a year of supervised release. I just don't think all of those who rejected the plea deals are idiots. I don't think the prosecutors were just being really nice guys/gals and giving these nice rich people a break. I don't think the defense lawyers representing these very wealthy clients are all fools. I could be wrong, but we'll find out when the first of the trials gets near.

 

My best guess is the prosecution will decide not to proceed with trials rather than get embarrassed in court. Charges will be dropped and the cases dismissed. I could be wrong, but that would be my best guess. Too many seemingly smart people have chosen the most expensive, possibly career destroying path, while the prosecutors have been extremely generous in a plea deal, to make me think that the prosecution will win. 

Fly!!! Eagles!!! Fly!!!
Honored Contributor
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Registered: ‎03-14-2010

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

Prosecutors say Loughlin’s biggest mistake was declaring her innocence and pleading not guilty so quickly...those who folded early and agreed to plea deals will have a much easier time and prob no jail time. Loughlin and Mossimo are just making things worse for themselves. If they have an attorney, it isn’t a very good one, or they are not listening to their advice. Now that one of their daughters has received a letter implying she is complicit....it is believed they hope she can exert pressure on her parents to change their tune in order to protect the daughter.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,213
Registered: ‎09-18-2010

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

Even though I haven't seen the discovery, the prosecutors have a very strong case and enough evidence as well.  There are far too many people involved in this for the case to be weak.  Plea deals are offered to gain additional information as well.  In taking a plea deal and co-operating and pleading guilty as well, helps to lighten the sentence the judge will apply.

 

CLients go against their attorneys advice all the time, the attorneys of those who plead not guilty will try anyway possible to come up with a defense whether it holds water or not.

 

It will all come out at trial and I do believe there will be a trial.  I do not believe the prosecution has a weak case at all nor would they take on a case of this scope without sufficient evidence.  This is not a frivolous lawsuit.

Honored Contributor
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Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS


@suzyQ3 wrote:



I would say that "No one should be above the law," because some people do indeed hold themselves up as being above the law.

 

 

@suzyQ3 

 

I agree, and many many of them that do, are attorneys that also happen to be politicians. Some help make the laws, but see following them as what OTHERS should do. But themselves? Heaven forbid.

 

 

 

hckynut(john)


 

hckynut(john)
Honored Contributor
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Registered: ‎06-17-2015

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

@gardenman   Good discussion-interesting how we view this situation from different angles.

 

Que sera sera, I guess.

 

Thanks for your input-always insightful.

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh
Honored Contributor
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Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS

I think the government has a really good case against the guy running the scam and the school officials, but it's when you look at the parents that the case gets on shakier ground. You'll notice they haven't offered deals to any of those directly involved, it's only been the parents who were offered deals. Proving the parents knew what was happening was illegal gets very complicated.

Fly!!! Eagles!!! Fly!!!
Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,526
Registered: ‎06-17-2015

Re: COLLEGE SCANDAL DEVELOPMENTS


@gardenman wrote:

I think the government has a really good case against the guy running the scam and the school officials, but it's when you look at the parents that the case gets on shakier ground. You'll notice they haven't offered deals to any of those directly involved, it's only been the parents who were offered deals. Proving the parents knew what was happening was illegal gets very complicated.


@gardenmanI disagree again.  LOL

 

It may be more complicated but the fact remains if you are paying for special proctors and altering photos etc. etc. etc.  you have to know these actions were unethical.

 

And unethical is often illegal.

 

I don't give them a free "get out of being stupid card" - ignorance of the law is not a defense.

 

jmoymmv

 

 

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh