Boing 737 Max airlines - Page 5

MarieIG · ‎03-10-2010

Good.

Do the math.

gardenman · ‎03-09-2010

A big reason planes crash is due to stalling. You need a certain volume of air moving over the wing at a sufficient speed to prevent stalling. When a plane stalls, it falls from the sky. The new Boeing planes are designed to sense a stall before it happens and to put the nose down to build air speed to prevent the stall. By putting the nose down, gravity accelerates the plane and you regain the airspeed necessary to maintain control. The planes are made to be stall-proof which should limit crashing.

What appears to be happening is the planes are sensing a stall and putting the nose down to prevent the stall before the plane is sufficiently high in altitude and the planes are crashing. Now, the question is, would the planes have stalled and crashed anyway due to pilot error? The onboard computers are trying to keep the plane in the air and prevent a crash caused by stalling, but instead are flying the plane into the ground.

Aviation is a balancing act. You can fly a modern jet very quickly, but use a lot of fuel, or you can fly slower and save a lot of fuel. Most airlines want their jets to fly as efficiently (using as little fuel as possible) so they fly more slowly. Fly too slowly though and the plane stalls and falls from the sky. My assumption is the new jets have a higher minimum airspeed required to prevent stalling, but pilots are using the old standard and the computers are sensing the stall coming due to the lower airspeed and are nosing the plane down to prevent the stall, thus crashing the planes. Airlines prefer jets to fly just fast enough to prevent stalling so they're more fuel efficient, but when a new jet hits the market the pilots and airlines have to adjust to that new jet. In at least two cases, it looks like that adjustment hasn't taken place. I strongly suspect the planes are crashing more due to pilot error than a problem with the plane. Had the onboard computer not put the plane nose down, it likely would have stalled and crashed anyway. These crashes have likely reminded pilots of the need for more airspeed in the new planes and with or without software updates, the planes should be safe enough.

Fly!!! Eagles!!! Fly!!!

MKR14 · ‎03-09-2010

My son is almost to Las Vegas right now from Dallas on a B737-twin jet Southwest airplane. He said a main hub for Southwest is near or in Dallas and his flight still left this morning. I am tracking it on Flighttracker and all is well. He should be there within the hour. Makes a parent nervous but that is part of being a Medical Billing Director going to see

out-of-state clients.

I am glad the safety of our country was addressed. Many planes are grounded as they need to be. My son flies back to Dallas on Saturday. Keeping him in my prayers as all that fly.

suzyQ3 · ‎03-09-2010

@MKR14 wrote:
My son is almost to Las Vegas right now from Dallas on a B737-twin jet Southwest airplane. He said a main hub for Southwest is near or in Dallas and his flight still left this morning. I am tracking it on Flighttracker and all is well. He should be there within the hour. Makes a parent nervous but that is part of being a Medical Billing Director going to see
out-of-state clients.
I am glad the safety of our country was addressed. Many planes are grounded as they need to be. My son flies back to Dallas on Saturday. Keeping him in my prayers as all that fly.

@MKR14, I'm sure he will be just fine. May I ask if the B737-twin jet is the plane that is in question? If so, weren't they grounded?

~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

bikerbabe · ‎03-09-2010

Imo it’s more than “pilot error”
From the Washington Post, regarding the first crash:

The 737 in the Lion Air crash had experienced a problem on the flight into Jakarta in which the displays for the pilot and the co-pilot showed different information, according to a preliminary report released this week by Indonesian investigators. That problem on the day before the fatal flight was addressed by engineers overnight, but apparently wasn’t resolved.
After the Lion Air crash, Boeing issued a bulletin to airlines that said faulty airspeed indicators could “trim the stabilizer nose down in increments lasting up to 10 seconds.” Though the investigation is ongoing, it appears the pilots on the doomed flight were fighting the MCAS, which interpreted faulty input from an airspeed indicator to mean the plane was in a stall from which it might not recover unless immediate action was taken. The MCAS responded by directing the nose down.
“Does this mean the MCAS and other flight programs are unable to resolve discrepancies between the left and right seat flight displays, and isn’t that a terrible design flaw?” said Mary Schiavo, an aviation lawyer and former inspector general of the U.S. Transportation Department. “The computer can’t reconcile the difference, or permit the [co-pilot] to fly normally from the right seat when there is a problem” with the pilot’s control display.
A preliminary report released Wednesday by the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) detailed the chaotic final minutes of the flight. According to the report, pilots fought to keep the plane level as it repeatedly steered toward the sea.

Lipstickdiva · ‎03-10-2010

A Boeing 737-800 and 737-900 are different airplanes than an Air Max 800 and an Air Max 900, the 2 grounded types of planes. Some people seem to think they are one in the same.

liliblu · ‎09-06-2011

@_O_ wrote:
@suzyQ3 , interesting...have not heard of Airline Ratings.com, thanks for the share. I do know Boeing has a huge responsibility to figure it out since they have a ton that are ordered and are being postponed. However, the 2 crashes that occurred are in 3rd world countries, their training is not the same, investigations not the same, regulations aren't the same as the US...thank goodness for the FAA, and they will turn to us for help on this. As far as whom is to blame, I don't believe everything I read or hear in the news. It's journalism, they might break a story but alot of details are left out, just enough for skeptisism.

Ethiopian airlines is a first class operation. They have modern equipment and planes. Their pilots are highly trained and well regarded. I learned all of that watching news reports about the crash.

liliblu · ‎09-06-2011

@bikerbabe wrote:
Imo it’s more than “pilot error”
From the Washington Post, regarding the first crash:

The 737 in the Lion Air crash had experienced a problem on the flight into Jakarta in which the displays for the pilot and the co-pilot showed different information, according to a preliminary report released this week by Indonesian investigators. That problem on the day before the fatal flight was addressed by engineers overnight, but apparently wasn’t resolved.
After the Lion Air crash, Boeing issued a bulletin to airlines that said faulty airspeed indicators could “trim the stabilizer nose down in increments lasting up to 10 seconds.” Though the investigation is ongoing, it appears the pilots on the doomed flight were fighting the MCAS, which interpreted faulty input from an airspeed indicator to mean the plane was in a stall from which it might not recover unless immediate action was taken. The MCAS responded by directing the nose down.
“Does this mean the MCAS and other flight programs are unable to resolve discrepancies between the left and right seat flight displays, and isn’t that a terrible design flaw?” said Mary Schiavo, an aviation lawyer and former inspector general of the U.S. Transportation Department. “The computer can’t reconcile the difference, or permit the [co-pilot] to fly normally from the right seat when there is a problem” with the pilot’s control display.
A preliminary report released Wednesday by the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) detailed the chaotic final minutes of the flight. According to the report, pilots fought to keep the plane level as it repeatedly steered toward the sea.

Thank you!! This appears to be a software issue with the new planes. This is not the first time aircrafts have been grounded due to safety concerns.

Ceci · ‎03-11-2010

They are 'Air Buses.' People packed into small spaces to get to where they are going. I think its a realistic name for airplanes. You are packed together like a NYC subway at rush hour.

Southwest is the worse. You get to know your seatmate very well.

Maybe they should call them 'air subways.'