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02-24-2019 01:26 PM
@suzyQ3 wrote:Read the link in @JustJazzmom's post. This issue is not about just hairstyle preferences.
If you choose not to read it, know this has to do with long-standing discrimination against ethnic natural hair styles. Should it be fair that a person with natural hair have to straighten it or otherwise try to style it in order to fit in? And dreadlocks are usually associated with ethnic hair.
02-24-2019 04:17 PM
@suzyQ3 @JustJazzmom Thank-you for your posts. I didn't make myself clear as to what I was talking about.
02-25-2019 08:18 AM
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:Read the link in @JustJazzmom's post. This issue is not about just hairstyle preferences.
If you choose not to read it, know this has to do with long-standing discrimination against ethnic natural hair styles. Should it be fair that a person with natural hair have to straighten it or otherwise try to style it in order to fit in? And dreadlocks are usually associated with ethnic hair.
I read it after I posted as I took the OP's topic at face value. I also looked up the lawsuit against Sally Hershbergers' salon. I don't know the answer. If a company has a "look" that they want to promote, and you have that look when you're hired, do YOU have the right to then change it which violates the dress code?
My local gym hires degree and certified Personal Trainers who are FIT. I mean, cross-fit/competitive fit. They want those who train others to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. In a few cases, a trainer has "lost" their look and after given time to gain it back, have been fired because they didn't. A few sued. They lost. Why? They knew what the expectation was when they were hired and either you look as the company says or you have to go.
Hershbergers has the added issue of uniforms/dress code being implemented after people were hired. That entire case is a mess, IMHO.
02-25-2019 12:23 PM
@SahmIam wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:Read the link in @JustJazzmom's post. This issue is not about just hairstyle preferences.
If you choose not to read it, know this has to do with long-standing discrimination against ethnic natural hair styles. Should it be fair that a person with natural hair have to straighten it or otherwise try to style it in order to fit in? And dreadlocks are usually associated with ethnic hair.
I read it after I posted as I took the OP's topic at face value. I also looked up the lawsuit against Sally Hershbergers' salon. I don't know the answer. If a company has a "look" that they want to promote, and you have that look when you're hired, do YOU have the right to then change it which violates the dress code?
My local gym hires degree and certified Personal Trainers who are FIT. I mean, cross-fit/competitive fit. They want those who train others to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. In a few cases, a trainer has "lost" their look and after given time to gain it back, have been fired because they didn't. A few sued. They lost. Why? They knew what the expectation was when they were hired and either you look as the company says or you have to go.
Hershbergers has the added issue of uniforms/dress code being implemented after people were hired. That entire case is a mess, IMHO.
@SahmIam, I think that in the case of New York's law, any question of racial discrimination would be adjudicated. I'm not so sure about other characteristics, but I would think that a fitness trainer's fitness is part of the job description.
02-25-2019 12:45 PM
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@SahmIam wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:Read the link in @JustJazzmom's post. This issue is not about just hairstyle preferences.
If you choose not to read it, know this has to do with long-standing discrimination against ethnic natural hair styles. Should it be fair that a person with natural hair have to straighten it or otherwise try to style it in order to fit in? And dreadlocks are usually associated with ethnic hair.
I read it after I posted as I took the OP's topic at face value. I also looked up the lawsuit against Sally Hershbergers' salon. I don't know the answer. If a company has a "look" that they want to promote, and you have that look when you're hired, do YOU have the right to then change it which violates the dress code?
My local gym hires degree and certified Personal Trainers who are FIT. I mean, cross-fit/competitive fit. They want those who train others to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. In a few cases, a trainer has "lost" their look and after given time to gain it back, have been fired because they didn't. A few sued. They lost. Why? They knew what the expectation was when they were hired and either you look as the company says or you have to go.
Hershbergers has the added issue of uniforms/dress code being implemented after people were hired. That entire case is a mess, IMHO.
@SahmIam, I think that in the case of New York's law, any question of racial discrimination would be adjudicated. I'm not so sure about other characteristics, but I would think that a fitness trainer's fitness is part of the job description.
@suzyQ3 What about size discrimination? In the case of my gym, both women were still qualified but they were now heavier/not as defined. If a salon wants only short hair or long hair or curly hair, could that be looked upon as racial discrimination against those who naturally don't have that type of hair because it's not the common type of hair in their culture/group?
Like I said, I truly don't know the answer. Obviously how individuals were spoken to, what was said in emails/texts is another story and if AA's were singled out, then absolutely action should be taken. Same if the employees were Asian, gay/lesbian, etc. I don't believe that in either article, it was mentioned that the salons had lost customers/money due to the hair styles and that many customers thought their hair looked fantastic. That said, I do believe a salon should have the right to have the "look" they want and if you wish to work in such a place, be prepared to present that "look" at work each day else, move on to another place of employment.
What stands out to me in both articles is the obvious lack of communication. That and the lack of face to face interaction between owners, managers and employees. Texts, emails and tweets are a far cry for speaking to someone directly.
02-25-2019 02:47 PM
@SahmIam wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@SahmIam wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@suzyQ3 wrote:Read the link in @JustJazzmom's post. This issue is not about just hairstyle preferences.
If you choose not to read it, know this has to do with long-standing discrimination against ethnic natural hair styles. Should it be fair that a person with natural hair have to straighten it or otherwise try to style it in order to fit in? And dreadlocks are usually associated with ethnic hair.
I read it after I posted as I took the OP's topic at face value. I also looked up the lawsuit against Sally Hershbergers' salon. I don't know the answer. If a company has a "look" that they want to promote, and you have that look when you're hired, do YOU have the right to then change it which violates the dress code?
My local gym hires degree and certified Personal Trainers who are FIT. I mean, cross-fit/competitive fit. They want those who train others to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. In a few cases, a trainer has "lost" their look and after given time to gain it back, have been fired because they didn't. A few sued. They lost. Why? They knew what the expectation was when they were hired and either you look as the company says or you have to go.
Hershbergers has the added issue of uniforms/dress code being implemented after people were hired. That entire case is a mess, IMHO.
@SahmIam, I think that in the case of New York's law, any question of racial discrimination would be adjudicated. I'm not so sure about other characteristics, but I would think that a fitness trainer's fitness is part of the job description.
@suzyQ3 What about size discrimination? In the case of my gym, both women were still qualified but they were now heavier/not as defined. If a salon wants only short hair or long hair or curly hair, could that be looked upon as racial discrimination against those who naturally don't have that type of hair because it's not the common type of hair in their culture/group?
Like I said, I truly don't know the answer. Obviously how individuals were spoken to, what was said in emails/texts is another story and if AA's were singled out, then absolutely action should be taken. Same if the employees were Asian, gay/lesbian, etc. I don't believe that in either article, it was mentioned that the salons had lost customers/money due to the hair styles and that many customers thought their hair looked fantastic. That said, I do believe a salon should have the right to have the "look" they want and if you wish to work in such a place, be prepared to present that "look" at work each day else, move on to another place of employment.
What stands out to me in both articles is the obvious lack of communication. That and the lack of face to face interaction between owners, managers and employees. Texts, emails and tweets are a far cry for speaking to someone directly.
@SahmIam, those of a size that bothers a prospective or current employee are not a legally protected class. Now, that's not to say that can't try to sue, maybe on other grounds.
The "look" that a business or corporations desires cannot breach stated law. If a person can prove that it is against a protected class, it's a valid case.
02-25-2019 02:58 PM
@Carmie wrote:I think it depends on the job. Long hair can be dangerous and get caught in machinery and scalp you in seconds. Some employers require you to wear your hair short or find a way to keep your hair close to your head and covered for safety reasons.
Jobs in food prep and serving require you to have your hair and beard under a hat or in a net....these are requirements and there are no exceptions.
If you do office or retail work, I don't see a problem with wearing dreads.
There is a big difference between dreadlocks and braids. Braids are woven hair that can be released. Dreads are matted hair that are sorta permanent. They are not easy to remove unless you cut them out.
I am pretty sure it is not illegal to fire or not hire someone because of their hairstyle if there is a dress code. I don't think this is the case very often.
I know a brain surgeon with them. He ties them back with coated hair bands and sticks them in his surgeons head covering. His are worn for religious reasons.
02-25-2019 03:14 PM
Dreadlocks and corn row braids are two different things.
03-12-2019 12:17 AM
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03-12-2019 12:32 AM
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