Beauty

[tototwo]

What JamicaJammer said

[HappyDaze]

On 1/12/2014 Swedishmiss said:

On 1/11/2014 HappyDaze said:

This is kind of a good start.

However, for "purists" like myself, lol, that are trying not to line the pockets of parent corporations who DO test, then please don't rely solely on this list. Many of the brands on her list, unfortunately, are owned by these types of parent companies.

Hi HappyDaze - is there a reliable list you use to determine the truly cruelty free companies? I agree completely about not lining the pockets of the big parent companies. Some of the brands I used to use (like Urban Decay) used to be cruelty-free, but I won't use them anymore. It is really frustrating.

I know, it is frustrating. UD used to be one of my favorite brands- I loved their palettes and their Naked foundation- but I refuse to buy their products now. Funny how they "got around" the animal testing to sell to China by just selling out to a parent company that tests so they don't "officially" have to. I don't like the games. I also loved many other brands but they've all sold out over the years. Oh well, there are still some good ones left and eventually they won't be able to test anymore.

But to answer your question, I have not found a good, comprehensive list of truly cruelty free brands. There is alot of misinformation out there about who tests and who doesn't (you can clearly see this by reading many posts on this board) and many people think that if a company says they are against it and working towards ending it, that that means they don't test but actually what that means is they are still testing but working to end it. It is just slight of hand.

There are also companies that are "cruelty free" in that they don't test their products on animals BUT they used animal derived ingredients that an animal has to be killed in order to obtain (like IT cosmetics' hydrolyzed collagen and I believe their squalane). So "cruelty free" apparently does not including killing an animal outright which, to me, is no worse or better than killing them over time by torturing them with cosmetics.

Most companies I am familiar with now after doing the research but still things are constantly changing and evolving so I usually try to remember to check on the brands I am currently using to make sure they are still not testing or haven't sold out to parent companies that do.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help!

[MarenSeattle]

On 1/12/2014 suebdoo said:

I was worried because PTR is on the bad list. I looked at every product I have from him, over 10. ALL say Animal Cruelty Free !! So that list isn't right, or not up to date. Misleading to me, although I am sure some should be on the bad list unfortunately.

She gives a qualifier at the top of the lists that any company who sources or distributes in China gets on the "bad" list. China requires animal testing so even if a company doesn't engage in it first hand, or only allows it to be done in China in order to sell it there, she includes them. I probably didn't report that accurately, so go back and look at the list, up near the top, for the real explanation.

The best thing to do is to email PTR and ask about the specific products you use.

Hope you have better luck than I in receiving a response from their customer service, though. I've been waiting over a week and a half for a reply, even sent a "just want to be sure you got this" follow up. Nothing. Aggravating.

[HappyDaze]

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 suebdoo said:

I was worried because PTR is on the bad list. I looked at every product I have from him, over 10. ALL say Animal Cruelty Free !! So that list isn't right, or not up to date. Misleading to me, although I am sure some should be on the bad list unfortunately.

She gives a qualifier at the top of the lists that any company who sources or distributes in China gets on the "bad" list. China requires animal testing so even if a company doesn't engage in it first hand, or only allows it to be done in China in order to sell it there, she includes them. I probably didn't report that accurately, so go back and look at the list, up near the top, for the real explanation.

The best thing to do is to email PTR and ask about the specific products you use.

Hope you have better luck than I in receiving a response from their customer service, though. I've been waiting over a week and a half for a reply, even sent a "just want to be sure you got this" follow up. Nothing. Aggravating.

That is nothing- I am almost 60 days into waiting for IT cosmetics to "find out from their manufacturer"what source their sqaulane is derived from (plant or animal). I pretty much assume (rightly or wrongly) based on the EXTREME delay that it is an animal source. I am sure they will hope I will just go away and stop asking about it and fully expect them to start ignoring my emails (which they started to do after the last email). When companies know that you (and others) won't like the answer, they delay as much as possible or simply ignore the email. Pretty disingenuous and not a company I will support in the future.

[HappyDaze]

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 suebdoo said:

I was worried because PTR is on the bad list. I looked at every product I have from him, over 10. ALL say Animal Cruelty Free !! So that list isn't right, or not up to date. Misleading to me, although I am sure some should be on the bad list unfortunately.

She gives a qualifier at the top of the lists that any company who sources or distributes in China gets on the "bad" list. China requires animal testing so even if a company doesn't engage in it first hand, or only allows it to be done in China in order to sell it there, she includes them. I probably didn't report that accurately, so go back and look at the list, up near the top, for the real explanation.

The best thing to do is to email PTR and ask about the specific products you use.

Hope you have better luck than I in receiving a response from their customer service, though. I've been waiting over a week and a half for a reply, even sent a "just want to be sure you got this" follow up. Nothing. Aggravating.

yes he sells to China so he tests now. Many of these companies will try to get you to believe they don't test by saying things like, "we are against animal testing and do NOT test on animals, unless required by law." Well, the only "law" that requires is China and no, they do not HAVE to sell to China but you know, $$ talks.

No one likes to find out the company they like actually does test.

[MarenSeattle]

On 1/12/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 suebdoo said:

I was worried because PTR is on the bad list. I looked at every product I have from him, over 10. ALL say Animal Cruelty Free !! So that list isn't right, or not up to date. Misleading to me, although I am sure some should be on the bad list unfortunately.

She gives a qualifier at the top of the lists that any company who sources or distributes in China gets on the "bad" list. China requires animal testing so even if a company doesn't engage in it first hand, or only allows it to be done in China in order to sell it there, she includes them. I probably didn't report that accurately, so go back and look at the list, up near the top, for the real explanation.

The best thing to do is to email PTR and ask about the specific products you use.

Hope you have better luck than I in receiving a response from their customer service, though. I've been waiting over a week and a half for a reply, even sent a "just want to be sure you got this" follow up. Nothing. Aggravating.

That is nothing- I am almost 60 days into waiting for IT cosmetics to "find out from their manufacturer"what source their sqaulane is derived from (plant or animal). I pretty much assume (rightly or wrongly) based on the EXTREME delay that it is an animal source. I am sure they will hope I will just go away and stop asking about it and fully expect them to start ignoring my emails (which they started to do after the last email). When companies know that you (and others) won't like the answer, they delay as much as possible or simply ignore the email. Pretty disingenuous and not a company I will support in the future.

Wow - that's disappointing! I'll email them to ask, too. We'll gang up on them! Petty of me, but I get so frustrated I fantasize calling in when they are on air and telling them how sub-par their CS is. It is entirely possible they aren't aware of it. I'm really sorry to hear about IT -- I like Jamie so much.

If I get a response to my query, I'll be sure to post it!

[MarenSeattle]

On 1/12/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 suebdoo said:

I was worried because PTR is on the bad list. I looked at every product I have from him, over 10. ALL say Animal Cruelty Free !! So that list isn't right, or not up to date. Misleading to me, although I am sure some should be on the bad list unfortunately.

She gives a qualifier at the top of the lists that any company who sources or distributes in China gets on the "bad" list. China requires animal testing so even if a company doesn't engage in it first hand, or only allows it to be done in China in order to sell it there, she includes them. I probably didn't report that accurately, so go back and look at the list, up near the top, for the real explanation.

The best thing to do is to email PTR and ask about the specific products you use.

Hope you have better luck than I in receiving a response from their customer service, though. I've been waiting over a week and a half for a reply, even sent a "just want to be sure you got this" follow up. Nothing. Aggravating.

yes he sells to China so he tests now. Many of these companies will try to get you to believe they don't test by saying things like, "we are against animal testing and do NOT test on animals, unless required by law." Well, the only "law" that requires is China and no, they do not HAVE to sell to China but you know, $$ talks.

No one likes to find out the company they like actually does test.

It's somewhat understandable they want to make more money (they're a business), but they should level with the customer -- especially those to whom this issue matters -- and let us make our own decision from there. Yeah, like that's going to happen.

I'm aware of one pet food manufacturer who lets customers know in the Q&A they source their rabbits from China. That's a result of customer inquiry - and although I don't like the product a whole lot, they get super props for being up front about it. A rarity.

[HappyDaze]

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 suebdoo said:

I was worried because PTR is on the bad list. I looked at every product I have from him, over 10. ALL say Animal Cruelty Free !! So that list isn't right, or not up to date. Misleading to me, although I am sure some should be on the bad list unfortunately.

She gives a qualifier at the top of the lists that any company who sources or distributes in China gets on the "bad" list. China requires animal testing so even if a company doesn't engage in it first hand, or only allows it to be done in China in order to sell it there, she includes them. I probably didn't report that accurately, so go back and look at the list, up near the top, for the real explanation.

The best thing to do is to email PTR and ask about the specific products you use.

Hope you have better luck than I in receiving a response from their customer service, though. I've been waiting over a week and a half for a reply, even sent a "just want to be sure you got this" follow up. Nothing. Aggravating.

That is nothing- I am almost 60 days into waiting for IT cosmetics to "find out from their manufacturer"what source their sqaulane is derived from (plant or animal). I pretty much assume (rightly or wrongly) based on the EXTREME delay that it is an animal source. I am sure they will hope I will just go away and stop asking about it and fully expect them to start ignoring my emails (which they started to do after the last email). When companies know that you (and others) won't like the answer, they delay as much as possible or simply ignore the email. Pretty disingenuous and not a company I will support in the future.

Wow - that's disappointing! I'll email them to ask, too. We'll gang up on them! Petty of me, but I get so frustrated I fantasize calling in when they are on air and telling them how sub-par their CS is. It is entirely possible they aren't aware of it. I'm really sorry to hear about IT -- I like Jamie so much.

If I get a response to my query, I'll be sure to post it!

Oh thank you! I would love if others would ask because maybe they will feel pressure to actually answer. All the other companies I've asked about ingredients, regardless of what it was, have responded within a week or two at the most. Almost two months now with emails stating they still haven't head back from their manufacturer is just bunk. A company has COMPLETE access to their manufacturers and can get answers about anything related to their products with a few days at the most. It is completely unacceptable. I like Jamie too but not answering customers' questions is just plain shadiness to me.

[Danishgal]

if you are worried about the squalene being animal based, the collagen and elastin ARE animal sourced and IT cosmetics has these in most of their products.

[MarenSeattle]

On 1/12/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 1/12/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 1/12/2014 suebdoo said:

I was worried because PTR is on the bad list. I looked at every product I have from him, over 10. ALL say Animal Cruelty Free !! So that list isn't right, or not up to date. Misleading to me, although I am sure some should be on the bad list unfortunately.

She gives a qualifier at the top of the lists that any company who sources or distributes in China gets on the "bad" list. China requires animal testing so even if a company doesn't engage in it first hand, or only allows it to be done in China in order to sell it there, she includes them. I probably didn't report that accurately, so go back and look at the list, up near the top, for the real explanation.

The best thing to do is to email PTR and ask about the specific products you use.

Hope you have better luck than I in receiving a response from their customer service, though. I've been waiting over a week and a half for a reply, even sent a "just want to be sure you got this" follow up. Nothing. Aggravating.

That is nothing- I am almost 60 days into waiting for IT cosmetics to "find out from their manufacturer"what source their sqaulane is derived from (plant or animal). I pretty much assume (rightly or wrongly) based on the EXTREME delay that it is an animal source. I am sure they will hope I will just go away and stop asking about it and fully expect them to start ignoring my emails (which they started to do after the last email). When companies know that you (and others) won't like the answer, they delay as much as possible or simply ignore the email. Pretty disingenuous and not a company I will support in the future.

Wow - that's disappointing! I'll email them to ask, too. We'll gang up on them! Petty of me, but I get so frustrated I fantasize calling in when they are on air and telling them how sub-par their CS is. It is entirely possible they aren't aware of it. I'm really sorry to hear about IT -- I like Jamie so much.

If I get a response to my query, I'll be sure to post it!

Oh thank you! I would love if others would ask because maybe they will feel pressure to actually answer. All the other companies I've asked about ingredients, regardless of what it was, have responded within a week or two at the most. Almost two months now with emails stating they still haven't head back from their manufacturer is just bunk. A company has COMPLETE access to their manufacturers and can get answers about anything related to their products with a few days at the most. It is completely unacceptable. I like Jamie too but not answering customers' questions is just plain shadiness to me.

I would think that the purchaser is the boss and would be in control -- not the manufacturer. I think you nailed it in that they just don't want to tell you. Again, many times the people "at the top" aren't hands-on involved with what the departments do, so we can't necessarily point fingers at Jamie or PTR, but it is THEIR company. There's no way to directly contact PTR from his site, nor even a customer service department. I had to go to askanexpert@PTR.com. The whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth -- and it hasn't even been two weeks! I'd be apoplectic if I were you. I bow to you in awe.