Re: Is This Where Entitlement Comes From?

NYC Susan · ‎03-13-2010

@Cookie2025 wrote:
This reminds me of one of the he neighbors children who come to swim - for FREE - at our pool.

The eldest grandson was about 5-6 years old screaming at the Mom of one of the children who lived in the building to 'GET OUT OF MY WAY - GET OUT OF MY WAY' when she was trying to use the ladder to get into the pool and he was trying to exit. She was already on the ladder on the way down when he was trying to navigate the water to get to the ladder.

We all just sat with our mouths open - shaking or heads. We hated the idea of the neighbor bringing her grandchildren to the pool. It was awful with the Grandson.

The father is a Principal at a City school.

The boy is now in Karate ... Grandmother says to learn self-discipline.

NIGHTMARE - I don't know what happened to the days when a dirty look or just one yell of the Kids name was enough to embarass a Kid but these parents need to go back to the hard old days. At least the majority of us learned our manners the hard way.

I don't see this as even remotely similar to what the OP described.

Deanie · ‎03-09-2010

@ANewHue

Yes, over in Europe is is common for certain groups to teach their children how to steal. All the guides tell you to be very wary of the children. The excuse that they use is the following, if they are so stupid as to not protect their valuables, they deserve to get them stolen (I kid you not) Closer to home, in the diamond district in NYC, the vendors all are aware that children are used as a distraction to allow others to take the five finger discount. Anyway, be that as it may, I do not know if this OP was in a situation that the adult said to the child to run ahead, but, the street smart person inside of me hears..."go ahead, I cant run so fast...."

Tinkrbl44 · ‎08-23-2010

@ECBG wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@ChynnaBlue wrote:
When people try to get in line in front of me, I politely inform them that I'm already in line and point them to the end of the line. That's not creating a scene or trying to embarrass someone that's giving them an option to realize that they made a mistake and correct it, which almost everyone does as soon as they have it pointed out to them.

I wouldn't start by shouting "Hey, no line cutting," which accuses the person of being a cheat and can cause a scene. Just let them know there's already a line.

Honestly, you shouldn't blame the girl or the grandmother if you didn't stick up for yourself. A big part of a sense of entitlement is never having anyone tell you when you do something wrong, like that teenager with 'affluenza'.

@ChynnaBlue

ITA ...... I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, some parents are in such a fog that they don't realize how annoying their children are. Why should we be expected to excuse bad behavior?

Sometimes it's appropriate to diplomatically say something ..... not use the "I didn't want to create a scene" excuse. There are many ways to communicate with people that don't create "scenes".

While good manners are always important, don't try to justify your cowardice by implying your manners prevented you from saying something appropriate. JMO
@Tinkrbl44,While I am not a coward, my concern was that the grandmother, who seemed a little "older" might feel less secure about being out alone in public. You can never tell how something will be taken no matter how kindly it is said.

@ECBG

That really doesn't make any sense. If someone is so emotionally fragile ..... or socially inept ...... that they cannot handle even a simple adult conversation out in public, they would have had their car keys taken away long ago.

Your Post #1 - The girl ran to get in front of me and ran to get into line in front of me. (I was just waiting to see how this young ladie's rudeness of running in front of me would be handled.) When the girl was about to go up to the receptionist, the grandmother said to me

"Would you mind if I go up there with my granddaughter?"!!! I couldn't believe it! I would have called the child to me and said "We don't run ahead of people. Stand with me please.".

In your OP, in quotes above, you state that Grandma had the presence of mind to get ahead of you, so I don't think she was having any trouble being "out alone in public".

Children run to get in line. That's not "rudeness" ... that's what 8 year olds do. Clearly you passively stood there and couldn't speak your mind, so you went in after them. So what? That was your choice. No one here thinks you should "make a scene", but because you regret not saying anything you had to start a thread here about it to get it off your chest.

Speaking up doesn't make you rude, and not speaking up doesn't mean you have better manners than everyone else.

Cookie2025 · ‎03-10-2010

@NYC Susan wrote:
@Cookie2025 wrote:
This reminds me of one of the he neighbors children who come to swim - for FREE - at our pool.

The eldest grandson was about 5-6 years old screaming at the Mom of one of the children who lived in the building to 'GET OUT OF MY WAY - GET OUT OF MY WAY' when she was trying to use the ladder to get into the pool and he was trying to exit. She was already on the ladder on the way down when he was trying to navigate the water to get to the ladder.

We all just sat with our mouths open - shaking or heads. We hated the idea of the neighbor bringing her grandchildren to the pool. It was awful with the Grandson.

The father is a Principal at a City school.

The boy is now in Karate ... Grandmother says to learn self-discipline.

NIGHTMARE - I don't know what happened to the days when a dirty look or just one yell of the Kids name was enough to embarass a Kid but these parents need to go back to the hard old days. At least the majority of us learned our manners the hard way.

I don't see this as even remotely similar to what the OP described.

The Grandmother asked the OP if she minded if she stood with her Granddaughter. From where I am from this tells me Grandmother doesn't have her Granddaughters respect. Why is the Grandmother asking - IF SHE THOUGHT THE GRANDDAUGHTERS BEHAVIOR WAS APROPRIATE she would never have asked.

Granddaughter should have stayed with her Grandmother. PERIOD - this is the same disrespect the neighbors Kid has done over and over - the pool incident was the tip of the iceberg and started the conversation in the 'neighborhood' about the rude Grandson.

No adult and Seniors - in particular - should not have to be challenged for a space in line. How would this go over if this where an adult who ran to get ahead of someone in line because this is how we get these entitled adults.

ECBG · ‎01-08-2011

@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@ECBG wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@ChynnaBlue wrote:
When people try to get in line in front of me, I politely inform them that I'm already in line and point them to the end of the line. That's not creating a scene or trying to embarrass someone that's giving them an option to realize that they made a mistake and correct it, which almost everyone does as soon as they have it pointed out to them.

I wouldn't start by shouting "Hey, no line cutting," which accuses the person of being a cheat and can cause a scene. Just let them know there's already a line.

Honestly, you shouldn't blame the girl or the grandmother if you didn't stick up for yourself. A big part of a sense of entitlement is never having anyone tell you when you do something wrong, like that teenager with 'affluenza'.

@ChynnaBlue

ITA ...... I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, some parents are in such a fog that they don't realize how annoying their children are. Why should we be expected to excuse bad behavior?

Sometimes it's appropriate to diplomatically say something ..... not use the "I didn't want to create a scene" excuse. There are many ways to communicate with people that don't create "scenes".

While good manners are always important, don't try to justify your cowardice by implying your manners prevented you from saying something appropriate. JMO
@Tinkrbl44,While I am not a coward, my concern was that the grandmother, who seemed a little "older" might feel less secure about being out alone in public. You can never tell how something will be taken no matter how kindly it is said.
@ECBG

That really doesn't make any sense. If someone is so emotionally fragile ..... or socially inept ...... that they cannot handle even a simple adult conversation out in public, they would have had their car keys taken away long ago.

Your Post #1 - The girl ran to get in front of me and ran to get into line in front of me. (I was just waiting to see how this young ladie's rudeness of running in front of me would be handled.) When the girl was about to go up to the receptionist, the grandmother said to me
"Would you mind if I go up there with my granddaughter?"!!! I couldn't believe it! I would have called the child to me and said "We don't run ahead of people. Stand with me please.".

In your OP, in quotes above, you state that Grandma had the presence of mind to get ahead of you, so I don't think she was having any trouble being "out alone in public".

Children run to get in line. That's not "rudeness" ... that's what 8 year olds do. Clearly you passively stood there and couldn't speak your mind, so you went in after them. So what? That was your choice. No one here thinks you should "make a scene", but because you regret not saying anything you had to start a thread here about it to get it off your chest.

Speaking up doesn't make you rude, and not speaking up doesn't mean you have better manners than everyone else.

@Tinkrbl44Thanks, "Tink", I value your discussion and input. I wasn't trying to get it off of my chest. Entitlement has been discussed many times before, perhaps without the label. After a full career of teaching SR HS, I think I have come upon some of the answer to the question of "entitlement" and how we unknowingly contribute to it. That subject is multifaceted. Values were also intertwined with my example. My parents and grandparents would have been horrified if I had run in front of an adult!

Lucky Charm · ‎03-09-2010

We've all been in the situation where you are approaching at the exact same time as someone else.

So you either choose to let the person go ahead of you or they insist you go first.

When you have a kid running up ahead of you, the proper thing is for the adult accompanying the child, is to let you go first.

Plain and simple.

Noel7 · ‎03-09-2010

@ECBG wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@ECBG wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@ChynnaBlue wrote:
When people try to get in line in front of me, I politely inform them that I'm already in line and point them to the end of the line. That's not creating a scene or trying to embarrass someone that's giving them an option to realize that they made a mistake and correct it, which almost everyone does as soon as they have it pointed out to them.

I wouldn't start by shouting "Hey, no line cutting," which accuses the person of being a cheat and can cause a scene. Just let them know there's already a line.

Honestly, you shouldn't blame the girl or the grandmother if you didn't stick up for yourself. A big part of a sense of entitlement is never having anyone tell you when you do something wrong, like that teenager with 'affluenza'.

@ChynnaBlue

ITA ...... I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, some parents are in such a fog that they don't realize how annoying their children are. Why should we be expected to excuse bad behavior?

Sometimes it's appropriate to diplomatically say something ..... not use the "I didn't want to create a scene" excuse. There are many ways to communicate with people that don't create "scenes".

While good manners are always important, don't try to justify your cowardice by implying your manners prevented you from saying something appropriate. JMO
@Tinkrbl44,While I am not a coward, my concern was that the grandmother, who seemed a little "older" might feel less secure about being out alone in public. You can never tell how something will be taken no matter how kindly it is said.
@ECBG

That really doesn't make any sense. If someone is so emotionally fragile ..... or socially inept ...... that they cannot handle even a simple adult conversation out in public, they would have had their car keys taken away long ago.

Your Post #1 - The girl ran to get in front of me and ran to get into line in front of me. (I was just waiting to see how this young ladie's rudeness of running in front of me would be handled.) When the girl was about to go up to the receptionist, the grandmother said to me
"Would you mind if I go up there with my granddaughter?"!!! I couldn't believe it! I would have called the child to me and said "We don't run ahead of people. Stand with me please.".

In your OP, in quotes above, you state that Grandma had the presence of mind to get ahead of you, so I don't think she was having any trouble being "out alone in public".

Children run to get in line. That's not "rudeness" ... that's what 8 year olds do. Clearly you passively stood there and couldn't speak your mind, so you went in after them. So what? That was your choice. No one here thinks you should "make a scene", but because you regret not saying anything you had to start a thread here about it to get it off your chest.

Speaking up doesn't make you rude, and not speaking up doesn't mean you have better manners than everyone else.

@Tinkrbl44Thanks, "Tink", I value your discussion and input. I wasn't trying to get it off of my chest. Entitlement has been discussed many times before, perhaps without the label. After a full career of teaching SR HS, I think I have come upon some of the answer to the question of "entitlement" and how we unknowingly contribute to it. That subject is multifaceted. Values were also intertwined with my example. My parents and grandparents would have been horrified if I had run in front of an adult!

@ECBG

You taught HS, I'm thinking you might not have a lot of experience with children age 8, give or take a few years.

I am bothered by the many topics on here which show a lack of knowledge of children but contribute to their demonization.

That kind of behavior, as you describe, is nothing new. Kids did that in my day and in my daughter's day. Most likely they will grow up to be polite adults.

You had every chance to say no to the grandmother and explain why. Don't blame the child.

spindlegirl · ‎03-22-2014

@ECBG wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@ECBG wrote:
@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@ChynnaBlue wrote:
When people try to get in line in front of me, I politely inform them that I'm already in line and point them to the end of the line. That's not creating a scene or trying to embarrass someone that's giving them an option to realize that they made a mistake and correct it, which almost everyone does as soon as they have it pointed out to them.

I wouldn't start by shouting "Hey, no line cutting," which accuses the person of being a cheat and can cause a scene. Just let them know there's already a line.

Honestly, you shouldn't blame the girl or the grandmother if you didn't stick up for yourself. A big part of a sense of entitlement is never having anyone tell you when you do something wrong, like that teenager with 'affluenza'.

@ChynnaBlue

ITA ...... I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, some parents are in such a fog that they don't realize how annoying their children are. Why should we be expected to excuse bad behavior?

Sometimes it's appropriate to diplomatically say something ..... not use the "I didn't want to create a scene" excuse. There are many ways to communicate with people that don't create "scenes".

While good manners are always important, don't try to justify your cowardice by implying your manners prevented you from saying something appropriate. JMO
@Tinkrbl44,While I am not a coward, my concern was that the grandmother, who seemed a little "older" might feel less secure about being out alone in public. You can never tell how something will be taken no matter how kindly it is said.
@ECBG

That really doesn't make any sense. If someone is so emotionally fragile ..... or socially inept ...... that they cannot handle even a simple adult conversation out in public, they would have had their car keys taken away long ago.

Your Post #1 - The girl ran to get in front of me and ran to get into line in front of me. (I was just waiting to see how this young ladie's rudeness of running in front of me would be handled.) When the girl was about to go up to the receptionist, the grandmother said to me
"Would you mind if I go up there with my granddaughter?"!!! I couldn't believe it! I would have called the child to me and said "We don't run ahead of people. Stand with me please.".

In your OP, in quotes above, you state that Grandma had the presence of mind to get ahead of you, so I don't think she was having any trouble being "out alone in public".

Children run to get in line. That's not "rudeness" ... that's what 8 year olds do. Clearly you passively stood there and couldn't speak your mind, so you went in after them. So what? That was your choice. No one here thinks you should "make a scene", but because you regret not saying anything you had to start a thread here about it to get it off your chest.

Speaking up doesn't make you rude, and not speaking up doesn't mean you have better manners than everyone else.

@Tinkrbl44Thanks, "Tink", I value your discussion and input. I wasn't trying to get it off of my chest. Entitlement has been discussed many times before, perhaps without the label. After a full career of teaching SR HS, I think I have come upon some of the answer to the question of "entitlement" and how we unknowingly contribute to it. That subject is multifaceted. Values were also intertwined with my example. My parents and grandparents would have been horrified if I had run in front of an adult!

With all due respect @ECBG I've seen you do things on the boards to intentionally violate terms of posting ~ such as many times posting your email addy or telling other posters how to do that without the Mods seeing it (post it then delete it quick) then even re posting it after the Mods deleted it ~ etc.

Knowing standards, agreeing to abide, then violating them & encouraging others to do same is having a sense of entitlement ("the rules don't apply to me") and contributing to it.

Glass houses, throwing stones and all that lol.

NYC Susan · ‎03-13-2010

@Deanie wrote:
@ANewHue
Yes, over in Europe is is common for certain groups to teach their children how to steal. All the guides tell you to be very wary of the children. The excuse that they use is the following, if they are so stupid as to not protect their valuables, they deserve to get them stolen (I kid you not) Closer to home, in the diamond district in NYC, the vendors all are aware that children are used as a distraction to allow others to take the five finger discount. Anyway, be that as it may, I do not know if this OP was in a situation that the adult said to the child to run ahead, but, the street smart person inside of me hears..."go ahead, I cant run so fast...."

I'm street-smart too, but I don't see any reason to assume something so sinister in what was really a very harmless situation. Nothing horrible happened, no one was swindled, and really no harm at all was done to anyone. It's not as though there was some big prize for whoever got there first. No one grabbed the OP's wallet and ran away, no one stole anything. The child simply ran (as children do), and got there ahead of the OP. Big deal, it happens.

NYC Susan · ‎03-13-2010

@Cookie2025 wrote:
@NYC Susan wrote:
@Cookie2025 wrote:
This reminds me of one of the he neighbors children who come to swim - for FREE - at our pool.

The eldest grandson was about 5-6 years old screaming at the Mom of one of the children who lived in the building to 'GET OUT OF MY WAY - GET OUT OF MY WAY' when she was trying to use the ladder to get into the pool and he was trying to exit. She was already on the ladder on the way down when he was trying to navigate the water to get to the ladder.

We all just sat with our mouths open - shaking or heads. We hated the idea of the neighbor bringing her grandchildren to the pool. It was awful with the Grandson.

The father is a Principal at a City school.

The boy is now in Karate ... Grandmother says to learn self-discipline.

NIGHTMARE - I don't know what happened to the days when a dirty look or just one yell of the Kids name was enough to embarass a Kid but these parents need to go back to the hard old days. At least the majority of us learned our manners the hard way.

I don't see this as even remotely similar to what the OP described.

The Grandmother asked the OP if she minded if she stood with her Granddaughter. From where I am from this tells me Grandmother doesn't have her Granddaughters respect. Why is the Grandmother asking - IF SHE THOUGHT THE GRANDDAUGHTERS BEHAVIOR WAS APROPRIATE she would never have asked.

Granddaughter should have stayed with her Grandmother. PERIOD - this is the same disrespect the neighbors Kid has done over and over - the pool incident was the tip of the iceberg and started the conversation in the 'neighborhood' about the rude Grandson.

No adult and Seniors - in particular - should not have to be challenged for a space in line. How would this go over if this where an adult who ran to get ahead of someone in line because this is how we get these entitled adults.

Sorry, I still don't see it as anywhere near the same type of situation. The little girl didn't cut in line in front of the OP. She simply got there first. The grandmother (who had moved more slowly) then politely asked the OP if she could stand with her granddaughter. Yes, she had no problem with her granddaughter's behavior because the granddaughter did nothing wrong. She got there first - The OP was not already in line.

As I said, not at all the same type of situation that you described. Which, btw, was awful. That's a kid I'd like to smack!