Community Chat

[pitdakota]

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@lovesrecess wrote:

Why does the media want to make people panic and freak out when there is no need?They seem to be exaggerating the number of deaths and the number of actual infected persons in some areas....shame on them. 

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Who is over inflating the number of cases?  Or deaths?  

I think the number of cases are pretty consistent based on positive tests they are doing.  And certainly a death due to COVID-19 is a reportable death to the health department.

I am not aware of anyone or agency overinflating the numbers.  Wishful thinking.

[Porcelain]

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

@x Hedge  Yes I'm wondering why the homeless community - especially in Washington State hasn't been extremely affected.  They would seem to be at maximum risk.

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And how do you know that they are not?  We have a shortage of testing kits, in most areas you must subscribe to a certain list of qualifications to even be tested (have traveled out of the country with an outbreak, have a known exposure to someone diagnosed with COVID-19, etc). Homeless individuals would certainly not meet those specifications. 

Then in some areas health departments with limited numbers of tests also put age restrictions on the tests.  For example, someone in their 20s even with symptoms and high risk such as overseas travel does not qualify to be tested.  Look those cases up.....lots of doctors out there talking about their frustrations of trying to get people tested.

Then to top it off, we are now facing a shortage of reagent used for the tests and a shortage of swabs to even obtain the nasal and throat specimens.  

So there may all kinds of homeless people and all kinds of other people high risk because of crowded condions that don't meet the requirements for testing.

As of yesterday the governor of Conn was calling alarm that he had 200 nurses on furlough because of potential exposure and he couldn't get them tested to see if they could come back to work.

So there may be a number of homeless individuals with the disease and no one knows it.  A further complication is that the homeless usually do not like to see medical care.  Although I don't want to put anyone in a box, it is fairly typical of the homeless to even stay out of shelters if they can, let alone seek medical care.  So who would even know when nameless Joe Blow is found dead under a park bench or interstate overpass.  Happens all the time.  And under most circumstances, the coroner will not request an autopsy so who knows exactly how they died, if they do in fact do die.  

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I agree. I kind of tried to say something similar, but you put it much more professionally. Much more thoroughly. You're only going to get another biased leading question as a response though. It's valiant of you to keep responding to the cadre of committed virus deniers. Bless you. I support you in this for the sake of all the other people who will read you.

[pitdakota]

And my last comment to those that seem to be so surprised by the shortage of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and conditions in the hospital, evidently here is breaking news:

Multiple nursing organizations are meeting at the White House tomorrow to express their concerns.  I have had multiple emails from nursing organizations, public health organizations, and medical organizations that are supporting this meeting tomorrow & discussing the various situations that nurses are facing throughout the country.

In fact, I have also been requested to write my Senator and Representative addressing the situations of these nursing organizations.  Happy to report my letters were mailed this morning.  Not that they will do any good, but it is what we nurses do.  

[pitdakota]

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@Porcelain wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

@x Hedge  Yes I'm wondering why the homeless community - especially in Washington State hasn't been extremely affected.  They would seem to be at maximum risk.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And how do you know that they are not?  We have a shortage of testing kits, in most areas you must subscribe to a certain list of qualifications to even be tested (have traveled out of the country with an outbreak, have a known exposure to someone diagnosed with COVID-19, etc). Homeless individuals would certainly not meet those specifications. 

Then in some areas health departments with limited numbers of tests also put age restrictions on the tests.  For example, someone in their 20s even with symptoms and high risk such as overseas travel does not qualify to be tested.  Look those cases up.....lots of doctors out there talking about their frustrations of trying to get people tested.

Then to top it off, we are now facing a shortage of reagent used for the tests and a shortage of swabs to even obtain the nasal and throat specimens.  

So there may all kinds of homeless people and all kinds of other people high risk because of crowded condions that don't meet the requirements for testing.

As of yesterday the governor of Conn was calling alarm that he had 200 nurses on furlough because of potential exposure and he couldn't get them tested to see if they could come back to work.

So there may be a number of homeless individuals with the disease and no one knows it.  A further complication is that the homeless usually do not like to see medical care.  Although I don't want to put anyone in a box, it is fairly typical of the homeless to even stay out of shelters if they can, let alone seek medical care.  So who would even know when nameless Joe Blow is found dead under a park bench or interstate overpass.  Happens all the time.  And under most circumstances, the coroner will not request an autopsy so who knows exactly how they died, if they do in fact do die.  

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I agree. I kind of tried to say something similar, but you put it much more professionally. Much more thoroughly. You're only going to get another biased leading question as a response though. It's valiant of you to keep responding to the cadre of committed virus deniers. Bless you. I support you in this for the sake of all the other people who will read you.

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Totally agree @Porcelain!  And you express yourself well.....I am just more wordy.  LOL

People want to live in the past or try to make comparisons to something they really have very limited knowledge about.  Doesn't mean they can't learn, just means they are so "bent" on their point of view they can't see the forrest for the trees.  But most of all, it doesn't matter....we are here NOW, this is the situation we face NOW.  And we had better roll up sleeves and try to do our very best to work the problems.

That is what matters.  How we work the problem.  I think it is just beyond some to think that this virus that is invisible to the naked eye can outsmart the human population.  But that is what it or any other virus capable of producing a pandemic can do.  Every single country on the planet Earth, save Greenland now has cases of COVID-19.  Now, we have to work hard to outsmart it!  All other viruses that caused either epidemics and pandemics did that too.  And over the course of history, sometimes we won the battle, other times we lost.  

[Porcelain]

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Porcelain wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

@x Hedge  Yes I'm wondering why the homeless community - especially in Washington State hasn't been extremely affected.  They would seem to be at maximum risk.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And how do you know that they are not?  We have a shortage of testing kits, in most areas you must subscribe to a certain list of qualifications to even be tested (have traveled out of the country with an outbreak, have a known exposure to someone diagnosed with COVID-19, etc). Homeless individuals would certainly not meet those specifications. 

Then in some areas health departments with limited numbers of tests also put age restrictions on the tests.  For example, someone in their 20s even with symptoms and high risk such as overseas travel does not qualify to be tested.  Look those cases up.....lots of doctors out there talking about their frustrations of trying to get people tested.

Then to top it off, we are now facing a shortage of reagent used for the tests and a shortage of swabs to even obtain the nasal and throat specimens.  

So there may all kinds of homeless people and all kinds of other people high risk because of crowded condions that don't meet the requirements for testing.

As of yesterday the governor of Conn was calling alarm that he had 200 nurses on furlough because of potential exposure and he couldn't get them tested to see if they could come back to work.

So there may be a number of homeless individuals with the disease and no one knows it.  A further complication is that the homeless usually do not like to see medical care.  Although I don't want to put anyone in a box, it is fairly typical of the homeless to even stay out of shelters if they can, let alone seek medical care.  So who would even know when nameless Joe Blow is found dead under a park bench or interstate overpass.  Happens all the time.  And under most circumstances, the coroner will not request an autopsy so who knows exactly how they died, if they do in fact do die.  

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I agree. I kind of tried to say something similar, but you put it much more professionally. Much more thoroughly. You're only going to get another biased leading question as a response though. It's valiant of you to keep responding to the cadre of committed virus deniers. Bless you. I support you in this for the sake of all the other people who will read you.

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Totally agree @Porcelain!  And you express yourself well.....I am just more wordy.  LOL

People want to live in the past or try to make comparisons to something they really have very limited knowledge about.  Doesn't mean they can't learn, just means they are so "bent" on their point of view they can't see the forrest for the trees.  But most of all, it doesn't matter....we are here NOW, this is the situation we face NOW.  And we had better roll up sleeves and try to do our very best to work the problems.

That is what matters.  How we work the problem.  I think it is just beyond some to think that this virus that is invisible to the naked eye can outsmart the human population.  But that is what it or any other virus capable of producing a pandemic can do.  Every single country on the planet Earth, save Greenland now has cases of COVID-19.  Now, we have to work hard to outsmart it!  All other viruses that caused either epidemics and pandemics did that too.  And over the course of history, sometimes we won the battle, other times we lost.  

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We won't lose.

[bikerbabe]

My theory on why the homeless don’t seem to have a large outbreak yet:

The virus originated from travelers coming into the United States not within the homeless population. Generally the homeless are outcasts and pariahs that people avoid. The irony is that the non-homeless would be the original virus carriers into the homeless population. I know in LA they looking for ways to get homeless off the streets asap.

[Isobel Archer]

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

We've always been told free speech stops when yelling fire in a crowded theatre.

How is this different?

It would be one thing to report how this lack of equipment/doctors has actually caused death/lack of care, but to create hysteria and panic by telling people - oh oh oh there won't be enough - that is just wrong.

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As health care professionals, then it is too late.  We do disaster planning and drills every year to make sure we are as prepared as we can be for the at risk man-made disasters most likely to occur in an area.

We take an oath to do no harm, and when a health care professional sees a possible crisis about to occur in the system, they have to speak out.  They may not be heard, but they have an obligation to try and call attention to the fact that there is a real potential problem looming.

And by using your scenario, we shouldn't worry about people having heart attacks.  Never mind what puts you at risk, we will just go about our business and wait until you present to the emergency room with a heart attack.  No need to call attention to what symptoms to look for, when to have an ECG, just don't worry until you have to go to the ER and then we will see if you live or die from your heart attack.

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@pitdakotaWhere did I even imply that hospitals - and even government should not be taking all possible steps to get the supplies etc. needed.

My point - as I'm sure you know - was - why create a general panic?  Do you expect the people in nursing homes or old people at home that  you've now scared to death to provide you a ventilator?

Isn't it more likely that by creating this hysteria, MORE people will flood ERs and call ambulances  before it's TOO LATE?  OMG I have a cough - I better go NOW before there won't be anyone left to treat me?  So in essence this is creating the very run on hospitals you want to avoid.

That was my point.  Never did I suggest that I didn't care about people having heart attacks etc - and I resent your implying that I did.

[Isobel Archer]

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@pitdakota wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

@x Hedge  Yes I'm wondering why the homeless community - especially in Washington State hasn't been extremely affected.  They would seem to be at maximum risk.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And how do you know that they are not?  We have a shortage of testing kits, in most areas you must subscribe to a certain list of qualifications to even be tested (have traveled out of the country with an outbreak, have a known exposure to someone diagnosed with COVID-19, etc). Homeless individuals would certainly not meet those specifications. 

Then in some areas health departments with limited numbers of tests also put age restrictions on the tests.  For example, someone in their 20s even with symptoms and high risk such as overseas travel does not qualify to be tested.  Look those cases up.....lots of doctors out there talking about their frustrations of trying to get people tested.

Then to top it off, we are now facing a shortage of reagent used for the tests and a shortage of swabs to even obtain the nasal and throat specimens.  

So there may all kinds of homeless people and all kinds of other people high risk because of crowded condions that don't meet the requirements for testing.

As of yesterday the governor of Conn was calling alarm that he had 200 nurses on furlough because of potential exposure and he couldn't get them tested to see if they could come back to work.

So there may be a number of homeless individuals with the disease and no one knows it.  A further complication is that the homeless usually do not like to see medical care.  Although I don't want to put anyone in a box, it is fairly typical of the homeless to even stay out of shelters if they can, let alone seek medical care.  So who would even know when nameless Joe Blow is found dead under a park bench or interstate overpass.  Happens all the time.  And under most circumstances, the coroner will not request an autopsy so who knows exactly how they died, if they do in fact do die.  

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@pitdakota  I asked about the homeless first so I'll explain why.  Yes I know we aren't testing to your satisfaction.  However, if this virus spreads - and kills - exponentially as you have insisted - and since it has hit nursing homes hard, I just asked why we haven't seen more deaths among the homeless - in shelters, in the street encampments - where they are in close proximity and should be very susceptible.

Clearly many are living in squalor - we've already heard about TB, Tyfus and other diseases.  Wouldn't this virus be worse?

Are you suggesting that they are, in fact, dying in droves, but no one has noticed or cared?  

[CrazyDaisy]

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@x Hedge wrote:

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

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@x Hedge wrote:

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@Isobel Archer wrote:

@x Hedge  Yes I'm wondering why the homeless community - especially in Washington State hasn't been extremely affected.  They would seem to be at maximum risk.

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Perhaps they are independent and self sufficient enough to find it much easier to restrict frequency of close contract with other persons.

edit...i don't like that answer. It's too broad. Have to think.

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I don't know, I work accross the street from a big mens shelter.  There are a hundred or so lined up each night for a meal and bed.  They are in close contact everyday, yet nothing about a big outbreak.

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I admit I was thinking of some specific homeless people when I wrote that. They avoid the shelters.

Some live in their car. Others stay out of sight in parks, woodlands, big cemeteries. 

I'd say they were seldom within coughing distance from others.

However, our overnight shelters and meal centers all have very good attendance.

 So this remains a puzzlement.

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There are so many contradictory situations....

The Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals have both been doing those drive up tests for the last 4 days.  These are provided to people who are sick and have doctors orders for the test.  The Cleveland  Clinic reports to date they have done 2,200 test with a small number of positive results.  With only 67 cases in the whole State it must be a very small number.

[Hoovermom]

Everyone wants to be an expert, even on these boards.