Community Chat

[gardenman]

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@agb80 wrote:

Didn't Ercot drop the ball? I'm sure Texas leadership will figure this out take care that it never happens again.  

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From what I understand, part of the problem was federal pollution laws. Texas applied for a waiver to those laws so they could use older generators they had on standby that exceeded the federal pollution regulations. The Feds said okay, but insisted the electricity generated by those plants had to be billed at $1500 per MWh which is something like 4000% more than the normal rate. There were other hurdles also, but Texas and Ercot didn't get caught with their pants down. They saw the cold coming and asked for federal help well in advance, but the federal government put an enormous financial penalty on them if they used the alternate means they had available. 

In my opinion, the feds should have given them the green light to use whatever they needed during the cold snap without a ginormous financial penalty. The feds made it nearly impossible for them to use the means they had available though and that punished the residents of Texas. 

The law required Texas to seek approval before restarting those older plants and the feds opted to impose a very harsh penalty on them if they did so. The feds didn't care about the people of Texas in an emergency. They loved their rules and regulations more than the people. Here's a link to the order from the Department of Energy if anyone doubts what I've written.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT... 

[SilleeMee]

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@Sooner wrote:

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@SilleeMee wrote:

In 1989 Texas experienced their last cold wave but since then the need to prepare for the next deep freeze was ignored. 

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@SilleeMee Had we put a lot of money into it in 1989 that model would be outdated by now.  

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I said 'since then', not in 1989. But point taken. @Sooner 

[HaileyB]

The Feds are responsible because the state neglected their power grid, got nervous and then wanted to fire up the old and dangerous equipment? Mmmmmkay.
Thats like bringing your fire pit indoors because you didnt pay your gas bill.

[goldensrbest]

I would hope Texans, would learn from this, and not continue to go it alone for their power,just read 3 kids, and grandma died in a fire.

[Cakers3]

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@gardenman wrote:

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@agb80 wrote:

Didn't Ercot drop the ball? I'm sure Texas leadership will figure this out take care that it never happens again.  

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From what I understand, part of the problem was federal pollution laws. Texas applied for a waiver to those laws so they could use older generators they had on standby that exceeded the federal pollution regulations. The Feds said okay, but insisted the electricity generated by those plants had to be billed at $1500 per MWh which is something like 4000% more than the normal rate. There were other hurdles also, but Texas and Ercot didn't get caught with their pants down. They saw the cold coming and asked for federal help well in advance, but the federal government put an enormous financial penalty on them if they used the alternate means they had available. 

In my opinion, the feds should have given them the green light to use whatever they needed during the cold snap without a ginormous financial penalty. The feds made it nearly impossible for them to use the means they had available though and that punished the residents of Texas. 

The law required Texas to seek approval before restarting those older plants and the feds opted to impose a very harsh penalty on them if they did so. The feds didn't care about the people of Texas in an emergency. They loved their rules and regulations more than the people. Here's a link to the order from the Department of Energy if anyone doubts what I've written.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2021/02/f82/DOE%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20-%20ERCOT... 

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@gardenman   This is true but there were issue longs before this monster storm swept in.

This is a complicated issue stemming from the beginning of ERCOT to the current disaster.

It isn't all cut and dried as to where the blame belongs. 

Also Texas does have limited access to the East Coast Grid and the Mexican Grid.

There will be a lot of finger-pointing, blame, and the usual misinformation spewed out by the media-and depending upon which side the media favors we will not be given a tightly sewn up story.

Considering Texas was moments away from a total breakdown-meaning all residents would have lost power (and the subsequent water etc. issues) this is not going to be resolved overnight.

Texas is not the favorite child in this nation; and this disaster will be used against the state for all the wrong reasons.

People are coming in from other states to help out with food/water distributions and that is what I look for-the universal community of humanity.

The rest will  have to be taken care of by the PTB and we shall see what will change. 

[gardenman]

@Cakers3 

As I said, "part of the problem" was the feds. In an emergency, the feds shouldn't be a problem at all. They should be the ones helping. They should be the ones bending the rules, waiving regulations, and doing whatever is necessary to keep the power flowing to save lives and keep people safe. In this case, they did the opposite.

The Texas authorities saw the problem coming. They did what they were supposed to do. They appealed to the feds for help during the emergency. Instead of helping them the feds imposed conditions that were largely impossible to meet. It was bureaucrats acting bureaucratically, but you don't need bureaucrats in an emergency, you need help.

Texas saw the problem coming, followed the rules/laws, asked for help, and got no help. The government shouldn't work that way. The old saying, "rules are made to be broken" should have applied here. Saving lives is more important than following bureaucratic rules and regulations that make help impossible. The DOE had the power to help Texas and instead forced them to suffer. Was it politically motivated? Probably. It shouldn't happen.

The proof that it did happen is right there in black and white. The DOE order clearly shows that Texas reached out for help well in advance and the feds, instead of immediately offering full assistance, imposed impossible to meet conditions on the help. It shouldn't happen. Waiving the air pollution standards during a once-in-a-century cold snap is not a huge ask. 

[Sooner]

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@SilleeMee wrote:

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@Sooner wrote:

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@SilleeMee wrote:

In 1989 Texas experienced their last cold wave but since then the need to prepare for the next deep freeze was ignored. 

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@SilleeMee Had we put a lot of money into it in 1989 that model would be outdated by now.  

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I said 'since then', not in 1989. But point taken. @Sooner 

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@SilleeMee Oh sorry.  I guess what I'm saying is it will take a lot of time to plan, so it isn't going to happen overnight.

It will take billions and lots of cooperation among many people, suppliers, and the delivery companies and state and local governments.

We are set up to use fossil fuels--most electric cars are running ultimately on fossil fuels.  You can't change that overnight either, and alternate energy methods should be examined realistically and impartially for the cost and reliability of what they supply given current technology.

How much will it all cost and where the money will come from?  What do we want as opposed to what can we afford.  The economy has taken a huge hit.  So that will affect everything going forward.

What I think is that we will not be able to separate what we would like for it to be and what that would cost, from what it really is and what actually is feasible and what that would cost. 

And we will get hung up on dreams and reality and nothing will happen.  And that's where we are now.

[LonestarBabs]

1983, 1989, 2011, 2013 and now 2021. FERC conducted a root cause analysis after 2011 with recommendations. Texas chose not to follow the recommendations.

I've lived in Texas through all of this, and can tell you it's a very complicated situation. Bills have been presented to the Texas legislature (which meets only every 2 years cuz they don't want to govern much as part of the state's constitutional DNA) through the years but don't make it out of committee. Priorities were elsewhere. Short-sightedness and misguided pride of independence and "oh it won't happen again" created a continuum of denial.

Energy industry rules the roost, didn't want to spend $ and be subject to guidelines/mandates/regulations.

I'm not defending it, just stating it.

Wind and solar power contribute perhaps 20% to the state's power grid in the winter, and the ability to draw from other grids is limited to a small amount of power. ERCOT territory covers all but the Panhandle and far west Texas and a sliver of east Texas.

The misery of this latest weather event and subsequent human and economic impacts MAY change something, but it could all be subject to political swirl.

So many problems, so many opportunities...

[gertrudecloset]

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@HaileyB wrote:
The Feds are responsible because the state neglected their power grid, got nervous and then wanted to fire up the old and dangerous equipment? Mmmmmkay.
Thats like bringing your fire pit indoors because you didnt pay your gas bill.

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Especially when they wanted no part of the federal regulations.  What were the Texans supposed to do?  Either you want regulation or you don't.  Texans (not the government) need to demand accountability from the way their system is set up. 

[gertrudecloset]

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@LonestarBabs wrote:

1983, 1989, 2011, 2013 and now 2021. FERC conducted a root cause analysis after 2011 with recommendations. Texas chose not to follow the recommendations.

I've lived in Texas through all of this, and can tell you it's a very complicated situation. Bills have been presented to the Texas legislature (which meets only every 2 years cuz they don't want to govern much as part of the state's constitutional DNA) through the years but don't make it out of committee. Priorities were elsewhere. Short-sightedness and misguided pride of independence and "oh it won't happen again" created a continuum of denial.

Energy industry rules the roost, didn't want to spend $ and be subject to guidelines/mandates/regulations.

I'm not defending it, just stating it.

Wind and solar power contribute perhaps 20% to the state's power grid in the winter, and the ability to draw from other grids is limited to a small amount of power. ERCOT territory covers all but the Panhandle and far west Texas and a sliver of east Texas.

The misery of this latest weather event and subsequent human and economic impacts MAY change something, but it could all be subject to political swirl.

So many problems, so many opportunities...

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Wow....are you talking about the "People of Texas" or its Leadership (as it were)?