Community Chat

[herekitty_kitty]

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

"Patton said he has lost sleep over her death. At the same time, he acknowledged that a short jail stint can sometimes "break the habit" of parents who'd rather party into the night than take their children to school the next day. The county started a program a few years ago that gives families 30 to 60 days to keep daily logs of each class and assignment. He estimated that the district truancy rate had dropped more than 30 percent."

if they don't want to be an active parent they shouldn't have children. the woman was living off the government. she was a stay at home mom. the least she could have done was be an active parent. stop blaming the court system. she put her self there.

[abbeythe 8th]

The father died in 2011. The fines go back to 1999. It would seem this family was dysfunctional for a long time. She continued having children if her youngest is 12.

While it would seem that children who are chronically truant should be punished, (remember when they'd threatened you with reformed school) it is the parents or guardians who are responsible for getting minor children to school. The law doesn't look upon it differently than parents who does not make their children go to school.

Tragic story.

[terrier3]

On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

"Patton said he has lost sleep over her death. At the same time, he acknowledged that a short jail stint can sometimes "break the habit" of parents who'd rather party into the night than take their children to school the next day. The county started a program a few years ago that gives families 30 to 60 days to keep daily logs of each class and assignment. He estimated that the district truancy rate had dropped more than 30 percent."

if they don't want to be an active parent they shouldn't have children. the woman was living off the government. she was a stay at home mom. the least she could have done was be an active parent. stop blaming the court system. she put her self there.

The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

[herekitty_kitty]

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

"Patton said he has lost sleep over her death. At the same time, he acknowledged that a short jail stint can sometimes "break the habit" of parents who'd rather party into the night than take their children to school the next day. The county started a program a few years ago that gives families 30 to 60 days to keep daily logs of each class and assignment. He estimated that the district truancy rate had dropped more than 30 percent."

if they don't want to be an active parent they shouldn't have children. the woman was living off the government. she was a stay at home mom. the least she could have done was be an active parent. stop blaming the court system. she put her self there.

The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

she would have had no fines to pay if she had been a active parent and made sure her children were attending school. now the children will live with the guilt. one more way this woman failed her children. it is a sad story. that is a long life to live with such guilt.

[terrier3]

On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

she would have had no fines to pay if she had been a active parent and made sure her children were attending school. now the children will live with the guilt. one more way this woman failed her children. it is a sad story. that is a long life to live with such guilt.

This family was dysfunctional. The dad is dead. The mom has mental issues and I don't think she speaks or can read English very well either.

The system failed this entire family.

If you can get out of jail if you pay a fine - that is a two forms of justice - for the well off and for the poor. That is wrong.

[Junebug54]

So why have 7 kids if you can't take care of them?

[Marienkaefer2]

And maybe she was doing the best she could, under her circumstances.

It is easy for upper and middle class people to sit in judgment on lower income people and pontificate about parental duties.

Reading PA is a city with a VERY HIGH poverty rate, and all the accompanying issues that cone along with a decaying city.

This situation is NOT the core problem. It is a SYMPTOM of a much larger issue in our society, and that is poverty.

Fining the parents when they cannot pay and then jailing them is not going to motivate the children. If anything, it will make them more hostile to anything they perceive as being part of the establishment.

[momma3gs]

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

ITA. Jail time for unreturned library books, truant children, and catching a fish out of season is beyond ridiculous. IMO jail should be reserved for the most hardened and violent criminals. The Court system frequently punishes people with jail time when they have no money for attorneys, fines, etc. It's all about money. Judges are former lawyers - they want people to hire lawyers to represent them. If you're poor, you end up in jail. And now this mother of young children died in jail and her children are orphans. For what? There had to have been a better way to handle this situation.

[herekitty_kitty]

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

she would have had no fines to pay if she had been a active parent and made sure her children were attending school. now the children will live with the guilt. one more way this woman failed her children. it is a sad story. that is a long life to live with such guilt.

This family was dysfunctional. The dad is dead. The mom has mental issues and I don't think she speaks or can read English very well either.

The system failed this entire family.

If you can get out of jail if you pay a fine - that is a two forms of justice - for the well off and for the poor. That is wrong.

LOL the system failed her? the system didn't make her have 7 kids. they didn't hold her down and say "you will have 7 children!" she shouldn't have had so many children. that's on her.

[terrier3]

On 6/14/2014 Junebug54 said:

So why have 7 kids if you can't take care of them?

Her husband died 3 years ago. I don't think she was prepared for that - who would be?

Perhaps they are Catholic and don't believe in BC? Who knows what their reasons are?

There are as many situations as there are families.

As a social worker, I have always tried to find a solution - you can't go back if people planned poorly, no matter what the reason.

When I had my son, I was married. My DH got a sports groupie pregnant and I ended up a single mom - nothing I had planned or anticipated.

I was lucky - I had a master's degree and a way to support us.

I don't fault people who find themselves in tough situations....remember, this mom is also bi-polar. It sounds as if she was overwhelmed by life (and depression).

I don't think jail for her because she is poor and no jail if she could have paid the fines is a fair or appropriate punishment.