Community Chat

[debic]

I've been told I have an accent and talk funny, but it's everyone else.   I talk normally.

[SuiGeneris]

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@chickenbutt wrote:

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@novamc1 wrote:

re: use of "a historic vs. an historic"

From what I remember being told in journalism school, both can sometimes be considered correct usage, but it's more comfortable when the "a" or "an" sound good with the particular word they precede.  "An history book" doesn't sound good,  but "an historic event" sounds just fine, doesn't it?  Oh, well......

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That's a really good point on the difference between 'an historic...' and 'a history book...'.     

Funny how I was thinking about this exact thing (article before word that starts with an 'h') just the other day.

To me, the way I would say it, 'an historic moment' sounds right.  But, with that word I wouldn't be pronouncing the 'h' as distinctly as if I were using the word 'history'.

When the 'h' is not pronounced as hard with some words, the article that apples to a word beginning with a vowel sounds 100% right to me.   That's not to say that it IS 100% right.    But I feel like both ways would probably be right because if you pronounce the word with a hard 'h', then the article would be 'a'. 

My vote is that BOTH are right, depending on pronunciation.  

Fun stuff!  

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I just said them both [history and historic] out loud several times and realized why the use of the article "a" or "an" in front of these words sounds either "right" or "wrong."

I think it's because they are pronounced differently.

"History" is pronounced with the stress/accent on the first syllable:

his-tuh-ree ...or ... his-tree

"Historic" is pronounced with the stress/accent on the second syllable:

hi-stor-ik

Also, the first syllable of "history" is "his," while the first syllable of "historic" is just "hi," without the "s," making it sound more like a vowel sound.

I think that's why "historic" might sound better with "an" instread of "a."

JMO

[chickenbutt]

Oh yeah, that makes sense SG.

Deb - You don't sound funny to me at all.  

I've always said that those of us from the West Coast, and west coast adjacent, don't have accents at all.  It's just a lot of other people who do.  But, when I really look at that notion, it doesn't make sense.  I've wondered if some people really do think we, from California and those from states all around us who sound the same, really do have an accent.   I don't think we do.  It's just plain old boring nothing.   

When I travel I really do pick up accents easily, though.

[SuiGeneris]

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@chickenbutt wrote:

Oh yeah, that makes sense SG.

Deb - You don't sound funny to me at all.  

I've always said that those of us from the West Coast, and west coast adjacent, don't have accents at all.  It's just a lot of other people who do.  But, when I really look at that notion, it doesn't make sense.  I've wondered if some people really do think we, from California and those from states all around us who sound the same, really do have an accent.   I don't think we do.  It's just plain old boring nothing.   

When I travel I really do pick up accents easily, though.

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CB,

Years ago, I watched one [or both?] of those PBS series that was mentioned on this thread.  It was from one of those programs that I discovered how newscasters "learn" to speak with no accent. 

I found this on Wikipedia, explaining why many newscasters appear to be from "nowhere in particular:"

General American, like British Received Pronunciation (RP) and the prestige accents of many other societies, has never been the accent of the entire nation.

The General American accent is most closely related to a conservative, generalized Midwestern accent and may have gained ground nationally by being spoken particularly by many newscasters and radio and television announcers; this has led the accent to being sometimes referred to as an American newscaster accent, "Network English" or "Network Standard."

General American is sometimes promoted as preferable to other regional accents and prestigious. In the United States, classes promising "accent reduction", "accent modification," and "accent neutralization" generally attempt to teach speech patterns similar to this accent.

A common experience among many American celebrities is having worked hard to lose their native accents in favor of a more mainstream General American sound, including television journalist Linda Ellerbee (originally, a speaker of Texan English), who stated that "in television you are not supposed to sound like you're from anywhere," as well as political comedian Stephen Colbert, who completely reduced his South Carolina accent as a child because of the common portrayal of Southerners as stupid on American television.

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I've lived many different places in the United States, from the Northeast to the Southwest and from the Deep South to the Midwest [my birthplace].  Over time, my accent became normalized to what I used to call "newscaster speak."  That was before I watched the PBS program, so it was fascinating to me to hear that I had changed my accent by virtue of living in many different places, making a concerted effort to not "pick up" the regional accents*. 

*"Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

[chickenbutt]

I've heard a lot, over many years, about how people in broadcasting, from specific parts of the country, are usually expected to have voice-coaching to get rid of their accents.  

When they do that, they sound like us!    So I guess we don't have an accent after all.  I never thought we did, but then that's just my perspective.   I remember the 'Valley Girl' thing some years back.  IIRC, it was a San Fernando Valley thing but I think it was just more of an inflection that was of the time period.  

Other than that, everybody I ever met from CA spoke the same.  Of course, some time during the generation before mine, people came in droves to CA primarily from the south so there are words and phrases of that origin that are common.  Both of my parents came from states in the south so I still say a couple of things that came from them.

[Disneylandfan]

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@chickenbutt wrote:

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@SuiGeneris wrote:

The obvious one for me is "ask."

It's not . . . "aks" or "ax"

It's . . . "asssk" [intentional emphasis on the "s"]

Another one is the pronunciation of the state in which I spent the first 20 years of my life [born and raised, so to speak].

It's Missouree or "Mizz er EE," not Missouruh or "Mizz er ah." 

When I hear someone say Missourah, it's like fingernails on a blackboard, to me. 

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I actually thought (obviously ignorantly) that Missourah was what the people FROM there called it.  I'm a West Coast chicken but I always heard it as Missouree (accent on the middle syllable). 

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My parents grew up in Missouri.  My mom said Missourah and so did all the family when talking with family or people from their home state.  When speaking with someone not from the state she said Mizzeree. 

[novamc1]

One other reason I've been amused by this thread is that...........

I often say "IT DON"T MAKE NO NEVER MIND TO ME", along with a shrug of my shoulders.  I also say it with sort of a southern twang.

Have always picked up accents easily in a sustained environment, and have been married to a Southern guy for many decades, so what can anyone expect?  Yet, I'm  perfectly capable of squaring my shoulders and telling off anyone who irritates me, using  the most proper, most precise, most emphatic plain English they've probably ever heard. (heh!)

I was, however, surprised to read on this thread that the  phrase is actually supposed to be, "It don't make me no never mind."  Learn somethin' new ever-day.

[novamc1]

Missouri/Missourah..........my dad was born and raised in Big MO, and I have loads of family throughout that state.  I honestly have never noticed how my aunts and cousins pronounce the state name, but I know my father NEVER said Missourah.  It was always Missouri to him......and to me.  Dad graduated with a business degree from Mizzou and was always a stickler for proper grammar, extremely neat handwriting, prolifically long sentences and a lot of long-winded stores and  lectures.  He just  about drove my sons crazy with those long-winded stories while they were growing up.

[shoesnbags]

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@chickenbutt wrote:

I know that I might be rather persnickity about such things, so I accept that.

But here's the thing - There are some words that when some people say them it makes me cringe and want to shove a pencil through my head.

I was watching a food show yesterday (on either FN or Cooking Channel) and there were 'pecans' happening in the course of whatever was being cooked.

The chefs both must have said 'PEEEEE-cans' fifty times until I almost went insane.    Clearly, in my estimation, it is NOT 'PEE-can'.   It's 'peh-CAHN' (accent on second syllable as illustrated by caps).

Are there any alternate pronunciations that make others just cringe?  Or am I just way too persnickity and I need to stop it? 

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Congratulations, chickenbutt, on starting a thread that has been interesting without politics or namecalling!  Now I'm going to make you cringe some more - around here (New Orleans) we say "puh-cawn". 

[chickenbutt]

Hey Shoesnbags!  Well, that's about the same as how it sounds when I say it.

Yeah, I know a couple of people were kind of snarky about it but the rest of us have had fun.  It's all in fun, and lightheartedness, and no offense was EVER intended toward anybody.  

I just think that if that particular word were to be pronounced PEE-can, then there should have been another 'e' or an 'a' - like peacan or peecan.    Otherwise it's a short 'e'.    While I'm at it, the 'a' in the second syllable is also a short 'a' so it's pronounced pretty much the way both you and I pronounce it.    peh-CAHN or puh-CAWN both sound the same to me.

Never been to New Orleans, but it is a place that I always wished I could have seen.