Community Chat

[pinkskates4]

On 1/20/2014 Jussa said:

On 1/20/2014 wowee said:

On 1/20/2014 Jussa said:

On 1/20/2014 wowee said:

legally, YOU are your husbands next of kin. Your stepson CAN NOT LEGALLY keep you away. Consult an attorney right away. Chances are good that you would not have to be present in court, this is a cut and dry LEGAl case. There is NO ONE in the world who would keep me away from my hubby, no matter what.

wowee, I have already said I don't have the stamina for court right now and I would have to go to court, and if I were to go to court, that would cause irreparable friction. His son has valid concerns about not scaring away the hired help right now until DH adjusts better to this new situation and/or his meds are adjusted to mediate his aggressive behavior. I have to play this wisely for right now and think very hard about my choices. I don't think it will serve me well to rush to court without realizing the consequences.

ETA: As far as being identified here, I do not know if his children or their friends, or other family members frequent here. I have no way of knowing.

I am not trying to be difficult, chances are you would not have to go to court, your attorney would handle everything. And I do not understand, how would your coming to see him scare away the staff? I am in healthcare and trust me, any home health nurses are used to ornery pts.

Whether or not I would actually have to go to court, involving a lawyer would be a confrontational move on my part and cause an irreparable rift. Like merrytime said, sometimes you just have to sit back and give things a chance as difficult as it may be. By taking time and thinking things through carefullly, I hope to avoid an irreparable rift. Remember, after a judge awards me the right to visit, what happens from that point moving forward as far as a relationship with my DH's children? I am a firm believer that all actions have a reaction and you have to be careful about making major decisions and not make them hastily or emotionally.

As far as my visiting scaring the staff, my once kind and gentle DH has had a major behavioral change with his illness. It is not just being ornery. It is volatile and aggressive and he can lash out without warning for no apparent reason, cursing, using threatening language, throwing things, even scratching or grabbing a wrist. I dealt with this behavior every day, so I know.

My stepson explained that his father was extremely agitated when he was discharged (understandably so) and needs to adjust to his new environment. He wants his father to get used to his new routine. He also needs to discuss with the doctor either adjusting or changing his father's behavioral meds so that he won't act out because his behavior seems to be getting worse. If someone visits, upsetting the routine, then they leave, his son and the staff may likely be left with a volatile, confused, and angry person. My stepson wants to minimize this behavior by not upsetting the new routine. He doesn't want the staff to say they are not going to deal with this volatile behavior and leave.

I think you are being very understanding and wise.

[Jussa]

Thank you Dagna.

BTW, my being understanding and wise about my not visiting for now does not mean that I am excusing my stepson from not informing me about DH's discharge and keeping me in the dark for 10 days about what was going on. That is inexcusable and I'm too much of a lady to say what I really think of him for that.

[Anniecamp]

Amen!

(((Jussa)))

[Lagan]

Forgodssake, give it a rest - sounds like the kid is trying to do his best. Why are you still whining about what's past?

[BellaPaprika]

In all honesty, I can understand the OP feeling overwhelmed by her husband's care but she signed over POA and Health proxy to the stepson and walked away from any duty to her husband as his wife. As a result, she is not in the loop as to where her husband is sent after rehab. He probably did need a nursing care facility and his money would have been used to pay for it. And if his kids had a problem with that, too bad. They can't bring a lawsuit based on their father being too well cared for!

I'm sure many spouses so burdened have thought of walking away like that but they get help. If she had spent his money on his care, there is no way anyone could have "taken her to court" over it. A simple accounting of the money spent would have told any lawyer that there was no case. Now she is having regrets because she has, in effect, given up her rights as a spouse. No adult child is owed anything from a parent's estate. If there is money left when they die, fine. But denying a spouse proper care in order to honor his intention to bequeath $$ to adult children is ridiculous. Circumstances change and he probably never imagined he would be in his present state of health. If someone was my true "soul mate" as the OP describes him, I would never give away the authority to oversee his care or his finances.

[Rununculus]

Jussa, hugs to you, it's clearly a very difficult place you're in. I haven't read every response but scanning your clarifications... you are probably doing the wise thing by waiting now rather than going to court to force your rights to see DH. It is selfish of stepson keeping you in the dark. As to his telling you not to come yet, I can see his POV... the staff of the rehab place may have recommended that DH get into a "routine" first before any change in the routine that could upset DH. Your visits sound like they leave him very emotional, first thrilled and loving to see you but then he may be volatile and abusive to those around him for hours after you left. There may have been some feeling on SS's part that you abandoned him, although you did NOT, and you did the right thing for your own health and peace. My heart goes out to you.

It sounds like patience is where you are being tested, and it's very very hard. Maybe if you can put your feelings for SS aside... nudge gently by phoning him every few days just to talk with him and ask how DH is doing... offer a sympathetic ear when things get rough for him -- my guess is once SS experiences the mood swings, he will have more compassion for the fact that you could not give him 24/7 care. At that point he'll probably be much more open with you and maybe even willing to consult you in the decisions about care.

Meantime keep seeing the counselor. It may sound useless, talking and crying, but you need a place to unload. Keeping that stress, grief & confusion over the decisions is MUCH harder to go alone. A support group can be a great place for exchanging compassion and tips on coping ... especially if it is through a medical center and led by a MH professional. God bless you, I hope things mend soon with SS and you are able to resume seeing DH and enjoy the love you have and more time together.

[Jussa]

On 1/22/2014 BlueCollarBabe said:

In all honesty, I can understand the OP feeling overwhelmed by her husband's care but she signed over POA and Health proxy to the stepson and walked away from any duty to her husband as his wife. As a result, she is not in the loop as to where her husband is sent after rehab. He probably did need a nursing care facility and his money would have been used to pay for it. And if his kids had a problem with that, too bad. They can't bring a lawsuit based on their father being too well cared for!

I'm sure many spouses so burdened have thought of walking away like that but they get help. If she had spent his money on his care, there is no way anyone could have "taken her to court" over it. A simple accounting of the money spent would have told any lawyer that there was no case. Now she is having regrets because she has, in effect, given up her rights as a spouse. No adult child is owed anything from a parent's estate. If there is money left when they die, fine. But denying a spouse proper care in order to honor his intention to bequeath $$ to adult children is ridiculous. Circumstances change and he probably never imagined he would be in his present state of health. If someone was my true "soul mate" as the OP describes him, I would never give away the authority to oversee his care or his finances.

BlueCollarBabe, I recognize that the problem with coming here with my situation is that people will start to read into the situation and form their own conclusions without the benefit of all of the history and all of the information. Unfortunately, I simply cannot provide the entire history or every last bit of information.

That being said, I did not "sign over" POA and HCP to anyone. I am still a POA and HCP. A person can legally name as many individuals as he or she wants.

I also did not "walk away from any duty to my husband as his wife". I did not place my husband in the nursing/rehab facility. He was admitted to the hospital and the healthcare team placed him there (with the family's consent) as being the best and only logical next step. As I posted previously, the last place I wanted DH to wind up was in a nursing home. My views changed as I saw the care he was given, but I have also heard horror stories about those in nursing homes who have died from community infections or just withered away in a catatonic state. The bottom line is, it's hard to really know "what is best" for any individual with dementia.

Your statement that I "denied my spouse proper care in order to honor his intention to bequeath $$ to his adult children" is completely off base and illogical. DH's children are named in his will. His money is their money. Therefore, I didn't have to "honor any intention." End of story. I also did not "deny my spouse proper care". His son handled the discharge from the nursing/rehab facility without my knowledge! He made the decision to set his father up at home and I may not enter his home without his permission unless I go to court. When I was caregiver to DH, I included his children in all decisions, asked for their input, and kept them informed of every doctor's visit and tests. They were always welcome to come over at any time, whether DH would be volatile or not.

I expected the same from them.

[Jussa]

On 1/22/2014 Rununculus said:

Jussa, hugs to you, it's clearly a very difficult place you're in. I haven't read every response but scanning your clarifications... you are probably doing the wise thing by waiting now rather than going to court to force your rights to see DH. It is selfish of stepson keeping you in the dark. As to his telling you not to come yet, I can see his POV... the staff of the rehab place may have recommended that DH get into a "routine" first before any change in the routine that could upset DH. Your visits sound like they leave him very emotional, first thrilled and loving to see you but then he may be volatile and abusive to those around him for hours after you left. There may have been some feeling on SS's part that you abandoned him, although you did NOT, and you did the right thing for your own health and peace. My heart goes out to you.

It sounds like patience is where you are being tested, and it's very very hard. Maybe if you can put your feelings for SS aside... nudge gently by phoning him every few days just to talk with him and ask how DH is doing... offer a sympathetic ear when things get rough for him -- my guess is once SS experiences the mood swings, he will have more compassion for the fact that you could not give him 24/7 care. At that point he'll probably be much more open with you and maybe even willing to consult you in the decisions about care.

Meantime keep seeing the counselor. It may sound useless, talking and crying, but you need a place to unload. Keeping that stress, grief & confusion over the decisions is MUCH harder to go alone. A support group can be a great place for exchanging compassion and tips on coping ... especially if it is through a medical center and led by a MH professional. God bless you, I hope things mend soon with SS and you are able to resume seeing DH and enjoy the love you have and more time together.

Thank you Rununculus. A point of clarification: DH is not volatile only with me. It can be with anyone. At the nursing/rehab facility, he scratched one of the PT's when she was pushy about getting him to do something. Also, as I posted earlier, DH's daughter and her daughter visited him a few days ago. He happened to be hostile during that time and actually threw something at his granddaughter.

When I had a more lengthy conversation with my stepson a few days ago, my stepson acknowledged that a spouse cannot be caregiver to her husband. It's almost a well known "fact". It did occur to me that my stepson blamed me for lots of things, but he is certainly very clear now on just how stressful and overwhelming caring for DH is. In fact, it would not surprise me at all if his feelings changed in the near term about having him placed in a facility.

Lest anyone think that I gave up too easily being DH's caregiver, let me elaborate on some of what I had to deal with. Aside from the daily verbal and emotional abuse over a year's time, DH showed violent tendencies, he spit at me, cursed at me, threatened me. In the last couple of months, he refused to allow me to bathe him, he refused any further PT's who came to the house. He refused to wear Depends, routinely soiling himself. He slept 3 hours at a time, which caused him to be up overnight while I tried to sleep. Obviously, I could not sleep well. As I posted earlier, his children didn't have the time of day for him during the year, just letting me handle things on my own. When things progressed and got to this critical state of DH's health and well being, I told them they needed to be involved and we needed to make some decisions together.

[BellaPaprika]

Jussa, what's done is done and I am not unsympathetic to your plight. But as a cautionary tale to other readers, you should not have given both HCP and POA to your husband's son. You relate that you and he are able to communicate and you could have done that without giving up your rights to say what should happen to your DH. A good compromise would have been to give stepson POA so he would feel better about how his father's money was being used but you would have final say over where and how DH was cared for. One does not rule out the other and it would have made you both have to work together.

Also, because of your post, I've been reading about adult children having both POA and HCP and there is a big problem with increasing incidences of fraud or the appearance of fraud. So much so that many banks refuse to honor the POA for withdrawals of money thus requiring the adult child to go to court to get a ruling from a judge.

[Jussa]

On 1/22/2014 BlueCollarBabe said:

Jussa, what's done is done and I am not unsympathetic to your plight. But as a cautionary tale to other readers, you should not have given both HCP and POA to your husband's son. You relate that you and he are able to communicate and you could have done that without giving up your rights to say what should happen to your DH. A good compromise would have been to give stepson POA so he would feel better about how his father's money was being used but you would have final say over where and how DH was cared for. One does not rule out the other and it would have made you both have to work together.

Also, because of your post, I've been reading about adult children having both POA and HCP and there is a big problem with increasing incidences of fraud or the appearance of fraud. So much so that many banks refuse to honor the POA for withdrawals of money thus requiring the adult child to go to court to get a ruling from a judge.

BlueCollarBabe, I continue to divulge details that I would rather not. I already said that I did not "give" HCP and POA to my stepson. His father signed the documents giving him those powers. Period.

I did not "give up my rights" to say what should happen to DH. I explained that I included his children all along the way for their input. (They were too busy with their own lives to be bothered.) I would have expected the same from them -- to be included. I was wrong. I have been excluded. It did not turn out the way I expected.

Thank you for your concern, but if you do not understand this explanation, I cannot help you further.

ETA: The only cautionary tale here to readers is to be very wary of individuals who are known to be self-centered, selfish and greedy and not to be too trusting. I put my faith in such individuals and gave them the benefit of the doubt that they would do right by both their father and me. I thought we would be working together as a family and they have chosen to exclude me for whatever reason.