Community Chat

[pitdakota]

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

@Mindy D, I found the article.  It had been a couple of days since I read it but google works again!  Here it is:

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-peo... 

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@pitdakota, just to make sure, which types of masks were studied? Were they medical grade or also cloth masks?

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@suzyQ3the masks that the Austrians used were any type as I understand with many being the dust type of masks that look like surgical masks, but aren't medical grade.  

To my understanding the masks available to the public are like the ones for sale now on Amazon that are not reserved for health care professionals.  

[pitdakota]

@suzyQ3.   like these.  Looks like a surgical mask but is not a medical grade surgical mask.   

[Mindy D]

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@pitdakota wrote:

@Mindy D, I found the article.  It had been a couple of days since I read it but google works again!  Here it is:

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-peo... 

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Thanks, I read it and followed up with other links. It is important to note that JAMA, The Journal of the American a Medical Association, recently published findings from research  that did not find a benefit from persons that are not sick wearing masks but since many are asymptomstic these findings are pointless. 

[Drythe]

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@Mindy D wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

So according to this study @Mindy D, 

"adherence to use of the P2 or surgical masks significantly reduces the risk for ILI (influenza like illnesses) with a hazard ratio of 0.26".    However, there was low adherence in many households.  But for those that did adhere to using the mask it did decrease the transmission of the disease their household children acquired.  

Not surprised to see a p value closer to statistical significance for the P2 mask than the surgical masks.  But both arms of the study with adherence did decrease transmission.  Not surprised either to see that the P2 arm had a lower adherence.  Those masks are compatible to the N95 masks here and they can be very difficult to wear for long periods of time. 

That is evidenced by the pictures in the beginning here of the nurses and doctors with creases and bruises on their faces from wearing the same N95 masks for hours and hours.  We are used to wearing them for one time in the patient's room then removing and putting another one on when you have to go back into the room.  These guys have to wear them for hours at a time.

BTW, there is an article submitted for publication in which experts in Austria discuss that mandating wearing masks in the public with strong adherence by the population, decreased their covid-19 infections by 90% within 2 weeks.  Not sure when that article will be published with their research.

But there is an article in Science that does discuss the overall Austria situation.  The Czech Republic and Slovakia are also saying their very low infection rates is attributed to mandating the public to wear masks early when their cases occurred. 

They are maintaining that the US and the UK have such high infection rates due to not mandating and enforcing wearing masks in public.

I am pretty sure that overall article was in Science.  But looking forward to reading the specific analysis coming from Austria.

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@pitdakota @I'll be reading. Finally, someone else that is interested.

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@Mindy D 

I am not disinterested in this topic per se, much to the contrary, just the obvious spin posters repeatedly attach to it.

[Mindy D]

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@Drythe wrote:

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@Mindy D wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

So according to this study @Mindy D, 

"adherence to use of the P2 or surgical masks significantly reduces the risk for ILI (influenza like illnesses) with a hazard ratio of 0.26".    However, there was low adherence in many households.  But for those that did adhere to using the mask it did decrease the transmission of the disease their household children acquired.  

Not surprised to see a p value closer to statistical significance for the P2 mask than the surgical masks.  But both arms of the study with adherence did decrease transmission.  Not surprised either to see that the P2 arm had a lower adherence.  Those masks are compatible to the N95 masks here and they can be very difficult to wear for long periods of time. 

That is evidenced by the pictures in the beginning here of the nurses and doctors with creases and bruises on their faces from wearing the same N95 masks for hours and hours.  We are used to wearing them for one time in the patient's room then removing and putting another one on when you have to go back into the room.  These guys have to wear them for hours at a time.

BTW, there is an article submitted for publication in which experts in Austria discuss that mandating wearing masks in the public with strong adherence by the population, decreased their covid-19 infections by 90% within 2 weeks.  Not sure when that article will be published with their research.

But there is an article in Science that does discuss the overall Austria situation.  The Czech Republic and Slovakia are also saying their very low infection rates is attributed to mandating the public to wear masks early when their cases occurred. 

They are maintaining that the US and the UK have such high infection rates due to not mandating and enforcing wearing masks in public.

I am pretty sure that overall article was in Science.  But looking forward to reading the specific analysis coming from Austria.

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@pitdakota @I'll be reading. Finally, someone else that is interested.

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@Mindy D 

I am not disinterested in this topic per se, much to the contrary, just the obvious spin posters repeatedly attach to it.

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@Drythe @I hope you don't mean me. I put no spin on this, I just report what the findings are. 

[Drythe]

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@Mindy D 

I am not disinterested in this topic per se, much to the contrary, just the obvious spin some posters repeatedly attach to it.

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@Drythe @I hope you don't mean me. I put no spin on this, I just report what the findings are. 

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@Mindy D   Not at all.

[suzyQ3]

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@pitdakota wrote:

@MoJoV, I don't think it is confusion so much as their understanding of how this virus is transmitted and being at different stages of mitigation evolves as they learn more about the infection.   

If people are pretty much locked down and not going out along with those that are working are using social distancing, the influenza virus can be contained fairly effectively as well as the SARS virus.  But then they were finding out this virus was more contagious than they thought previously.

The previous SARS virus didn't have that high of a level of infectivity, but it was more deadly as they are finding out now with this coronavirus.  Since they had never dealt with this particular virus, it made sense at the time to react to the virus as if it was very similar to SARS.  As  more and more cases occurred, they learned it was acting different than SARS in how contagious it was and also the clinical pathophysiology of the disease.  The coronavirus is not as deadly as SARS, but many of the complications they are seeing today with this virus were not found with SARS.  Probably because the people died so quickly with SARS.  So while it isn't as deadly as SARS, they are seeing all kinds of clinical sequalae that they have not seen previously with viral infections.  They are learning about that as well and changing practice based on what they are learning.  

Research that has come out of China, Italy, and South Korea has offered quite a bit of information that changed thinking and recommendations.  Geez, that stuff happens all the time with all kinds of things.  Not just infectious disease.

I imagine it was quite sobering when they learned of the analysis of contact tracing in South Korea in which one woman attending a couple of church services on that same day led to 1,000 cases.  Pretty sobering that it can be that contagious!  Stops you in your tracks.  

So as more information comes along recommendations will change and they get better at understanding what they are seeing, how to deal with it, and better ways to deal with the situation.

Geez, that happens in all kinds of things.  Even something like learning to knit.  The more one learns about knitting, the better they get and they learn better strategies that work for them when knitting.

These things about well they told us this and then changed.  Yes!!  And that is what you want them to do.  How would you like it if they learned information that should have changed recommendations and didn't tell the public so that more infections continued to happen?

.  

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@pitdakota, that would indeed be perposterously dangerous.

[suzyQ3]

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@pitdakota wrote:

@suzyQ3.   like these.  Looks like a surgical mask but is not a medical grade surgical mask.   

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@pitdakota, I have a triple-layer cotton one with the middle layer being a non-woven polyester (supposedly less permeable). Would that be equal to the masks above?

[pitdakota]

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@Mindy D wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

@Mindy D, I found the article.  It had been a couple of days since I read it but google works again!  Here it is:

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-peo... 

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Thanks, I read it and followed up with other links. It is important to note that JAMA, The Journal of the American a Medical Association, recently published findings from research  that did not find a benefit from persons that are not sick wearing masks but since many are asymptomstic these findings are pointless. 

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@Mindy D, that is the reason I like the study you posted.  When you look at the public, so many just don't adhere to the practice of wearing the mask.  Your study addressed that and was able to separate the groups out that  adhered to the ones that just gave up on wearing the mask.  They were able to run some coefficients on those to see there were diffierences between infection rates between those that adhered and those that didn't adhere.  

Other studies don't really account for non-adherence or the different types of masks that we know that shouldn't be used.  For example, the type that has a valve.

There are multiple clinical studies that document protection of the N95 masks for health care professionals.  We know they provide pretty good protection when exposed.

But for cloth masks and other non-medical grade masks it isn't about just wearing the mask.  It is using the masks in conjunction with social distancing.  As we know a cloth mask does not protect the one that wears it.  The purpose is to contain the respiratory droplets from talking closer to the individual wearing the mask.  Then if people are maintaing a distance from others it should really decrease the risk of expelling those droplets into someone else's space or on to articles that are around in the environment. 

One of the reasons I am anxious to read the specifics about Austria.  They attribute it to the public's adherence to wearing masks, but I also want to make sure what level of social distancing they were using.  A good friend of mine is in England and there space is 10 feet, where as you know, ours is 6 ft. 

[pitdakota]

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

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@pitdakota wrote:

@suzyQ3.   like these.  Looks like a surgical mask but is not a medical grade surgical mask.   

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@pitdakota, I have a triple-layer cotton one with the middle layer being a non-woven polyester (supposedly less permeable). Would that be equal to the masks above?

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@suzyQ3Probably better.  I will pass on a tip from some of my nurse friends around here.  Of course, they are wearing masks out in public but don't use medical grade masks.

  So they taking cotton masks and adding another layer of cotton to the inside of the mask that makes a pocket.  Then they take a coffee filter and place inside that pocket.  An infectious disease doc at the hospital came up with that idea.  Not only  does the cotton mask help with not spraying your droplets into the environment, the cloth along with a coffee filter will filter more of the particles out that you are breathing in.