Community Chat

[azterry!]

On 1/8/2014 occasional rain said:

On 1/8/2014 azterry! said:

On 1/8/2014 occasional rain said:

To say that mistakes are acceptable because the doctors and nurses are human is unbelievable. Their chosen profession is one where mistakes are unacceptable. There are people who are careless and there are those who take their job seriously and avoid mistakes because they are vigilant, they double check.

No child should die from a tonsillectomy. That this one did is on the hospital and it's staff. If she had a preexisting condition the doctor should have discovered it before the surgery and planned for it.

To say that mistakes should never happen is what we'd all like to believe. To think that doctors and nurses have super-human power to anticipate absolutely everything that could happen is fantasy.

Medicine is not an exact science. The human body doesn't always react and behave the way it is supposed to. A doctor cannot "discover" a pre-existing condition in many cases, unless the patient or parent tells them about it.

You're right. No child should die from a tonsillectomy. At this point, we don't have all the facts of exactly what else what going on with this particular child, do we?

We know that she saw two doctors prior to the surgery. We expect that tests were done prior to determine if she had a preexisting condition, heart, blood clotting... but did she?

Would you be as accepting of human error if it were made by those in charge of nuclear bombs? These mistakes happen daily in every hospital and most if not all are due to carelessness, lack of sleep, drug use, alcoholism. No medical professional charged with patient care should be working double shifts.

Comparing the workings of a mechanical object to a human body is not a valid argument. For the most part, machines work in the way they were built to do. Outcomes are expected and predictable. The human body does not work that way.

I do agree that medical personnel should not be worked to the point of exhaustion. Nor should police officers, fire fighters, veterinarians, accountants, computer programmers, ambulance drivers, taxicab drivers, airline pilots, long haul truckers......and on and on. That's a whole nother issue and has more to do with corporate greed than the failings of human beings.

[Shorty2U]

That's terrible! Im so sorry for what happened to your family. Thank God your daughter IS ok. I know doctors and medical staff make mistakes, you are right. If you are speaking of the young lady with the tonsils. I agree its NOT her families fault, but now she is gone, brain dead and it is my opinion they should let her go. But I understand how hard it is for them but I do not blame them for how she got there. That IS the medical fields fault.

My story is and why I know the medical field does things wrong is; My dad was killed by neglect of a nursing home. He went there upon falling and he went in "just" for "physical" therapy after a fall and was going to be moved to assisted living. He never got physical therapy. They kept saying he wont do therapy he has dementia. That was a LIE because we used to go hold onto dad with one of those attachment ropes, and help walk dad in the hall to try to motivate him. BUT he just kept going downhill and said his back hurt his back hurt and he could no longer move. I told them and they just kept saying he had dementia. I had NO say because I wasn't in charge my sibling was. (I called the Dr, I called other homes, I called everyone and no one would help me help my dad) My sibling called too and was on them but they didn't care and no other home would take him (until he was hospitalized). They kept saying dementia and drugged him and ignored him and didn't hand him his fluids. We would go almost daily and try to give him fluids, but he just kept getting worse. He went into kidney failure and ended up in ICU. Finally they moved him after that to a wonderful facility but it was TOO late. He died of kidney failure. We tried to sue the 1st home, and the home said it was dads fault he didn't co-operate. That's like saying a person w a feeding tube didn't co-operate! My dad had dementia, and needed them to give him IVs not set a drink there and leave and ignore him. Well the lawyer never took our case.

I went to extensive therapy for a year because I had extreme guilt like it was my fault because I cant lift due to health issues. SO I felt it was my fault that I could not take care of my own dad, and I felt in retrospect that I should have had my husband steal dad from that home and I should have rescued him. Also before dad fell I kept saying he cant be alone but my in charge sibling wouldn't listen to me and this is what all sadly took place.

I still live with the pain every day of my life and always will. The only solace I get is knowing that our lawyer is suing that same home and Dr for killing another patient by ignoring him too. I hope the home will pay for what they did one day soon. And I pray every day that my dad knows how much we love him and miss him and that he is in peace in heaven with mom, the love of his life.

[foundinlv]

Ford....thank you for posting your experience. When I was a kid I had enlarged tonsils and wanted them out but the doctor said it was no longer a popular surgery and he refused. I was very upset over this and definitely wanted them out. Then, when I was 18 I looked into it and was told absolutely not...too risky when you are older. So, again I was very disappointed but to my complete amazement they shrank when I got much older and they have been normal size for years now.

[sophiamarie]

On 1/8/2014 Ford1224 said:

On 1/8/2014 Panda Wrangler said:

I'm sorry your daughter was treated that way. I have heard this story before, patients who woke up during a surgery thinking they were going to die and freaked out of their minds.

Even though she is alright now I wish you had made it known publicly. I feel with all my heart that your daughter isn't the only patient this doctor abused and I'd like patients like this to be heard. Too many stories like your daughter's and then they finally get listened to and somebody starts watching stupid doctors like that.

I had the other situation happen to me. I was put under at 8 am for a simple procedure, supposed to home by lunchtime. First thing I remember was being shaken and the drapes in the room being pulled and the lights turned on, it was almost 9:30 pm. Nobody even tried to explain that except, "Every one reacts differently to anesthesia. I'd had it before as kid and there wasn't any problems and staff carried on as if there was none this time. I couldn't stay awake, the nurses took my BP through the night and I was finally truly awake the next morning. I don't care what anyone says, that wasn't normal and it wasn't just me.

OMG, what a nightmare that must have been. I have also had many surgeries and procedures and some bad experiences that I won't post here.

My daughter was not "hallucinating," because remember, the doctor told me himself that "she made a fuss." They had tranquilized her a certain time before the surgery was to be performed. He was late in performing the surgery and the med had worn off. He didn't want to wait for it to be readministered, so he performed the surgery without any thought to the fact that she would feel the pain. Then he came and told me she "made a fuss" and left the building. He never said she was hallucinating.

I should have pushed more, but I was young myself and I had no money. Any attorney would have required a retainer which I did not have. Plus the attorney I knew (and trusted at the time) told me we didn't have a credible case. It was our word against theirs. It certainly is one of the incidents in my life that I would like to "do over." The "me" of even five years later would have fought harder, that much I do know.

[baddest_dog]

lots of misinformation going on here. I worked on developing electronic medical records for a LARGE hospital for many years. Everyone who has access to enter information into a patient's chart has a unique numbered sign-on. It is monitored daily for any type of fraud. It is almost impossible for someone to falsify a medical record since they leave behind a "thumbprint" and would get caught. The doctors who review the records on each patient has to sign off on entries made by other personnel with a time/date electronic stamp. Never in my 25 years of working in healthcare did I see a doctor cover up or falsify a record. That is not to say it has NEVER happened in history but if and when mistakes are made (and I said mistakes) they are brought into the open and more investigation goes on to see what could have happened, every day hospitals work on protecting patient privacy, who has access to medical records and as I said daily monitoring.

As for the incident with the tonsillectomy, I have had several surgeries in my life and coming out of anesthesia can cause hallucinations, bad dreams for days, movements that to an observer might appear the person is having a seizure and so on. To the uninformed, it can be scary, but not malpractice or cause for lawsuits. Certainly mistakes can happen but as I said they are then used in M&M conferences to discuss how to not let them happen again. And I am not making light of a medical mistake that anyone personally has experienced, I'm only saying that medicine can be scary when you think about the fact that these doctors cut open your chest, your brain, your gut and do the impossible. When I first started out, I was allowed to observe 3 surgeries, a brain tumor removal, a colon removal for cancer, and an orthopaedic surgery. All of those were when I worked in anesthesia and there is a lot going on in OR's. Anyway, just thought I would give my perspective on medical records since I spent 4 years developing and training on electronic medical records.

[scotttie]

On 1/8/2014 pridequeen said:

lots of misinformation going on here. I worked on developing electronic medical records for a LARGE hospital for many years. Everyone who has access to enter information into a patient's chart has a unique numbered sign-on. It is monitored daily for any type of fraud. It is almost impossible for someone to falsify a medical record since they leave behind a "thumbprint" and would get caught. The doctors who review the records on each patient has to sign off on entries made by other personnel with a time/date electronic stamp. Never in my 25 years of working in healthcare did I see a doctor cover up or falsify a record. That is not to say it has NEVER happened in history but if and when mistakes are made (and I said mistakes) they are brought into the open and more investigation goes on to see what could have happened, every day hospitals work on protecting patient privacy, who has access to medical records and as I said daily monitoring.

As for the incident with the tonsillectomy, I have had several surgeries in my life and coming out of anesthesia can cause hallucinations, bad dreams for days, movements that to an observer might appear the person is having a seizure and so on. To the uninformed, it can be scary, but not malpractice or cause for lawsuits. Certainly mistakes can happen but as I said they are then used in M&M conferences to discuss how to not let them happen again. And I am not making light of a medical mistake that anyone personally has experienced, I'm only saying that medicine can be scary when you think about the fact that these doctors cut open your chest, your brain, your gut and do the impossible. When I first started out, I was allowed to observe 3 surgeries, a brain tumor removal, a colon removal for cancer, and an orthopaedic surgery. All of those were when I worked in anesthesia and there is a lot going on in OR's. Anyway, just thought I would give my perspective on medical records since I spent 4 years developing and training on electronic medical records.

In the case of my cousin (not a tonsillectomy btw) he did have hysteria when he was brought into recovery....because he remembered what happened to him. But the nurses then admitted that what he said happened in surgery was the truth! It went to the board of the hospital and it was established as truth in the medical record.

No lawsuit as there was no permanent damage.

[Sushismom]

This is basically the same information that Pit posted. Again, I would have more trust in the information coming from informed, experienced sources than from info coming from those with just computer experience but no medical record experience, myself included.

[baddest_dog]

On 1/8/2014 sophiamarie said:

On 1/8/2014 Ford1224 said:

On 1/8/2014 Panda Wrangler said:

I'm sorry your daughter was treated that way. I have heard this story before, patients who woke up during a surgery thinking they were going to die and freaked out of their minds.

Even though she is alright now I wish you had made it known publicly. I feel with all my heart that your daughter isn't the only patient this doctor abused and I'd like patients like this to be heard. Too many stories like your daughter's and then they finally get listened to and somebody starts watching stupid doctors like that.

I had the other situation happen to me. I was put under at 8 am for a simple procedure, supposed to home by lunchtime. First thing I remember was being shaken and the drapes in the room being pulled and the lights turned on, it was almost 9:30 pm. Nobody even tried to explain that except, "Every one reacts differently to anesthesia. I'd had it before as kid and there wasn't any problems and staff carried on as if there was none this time. I couldn't stay awake, the nurses took my BP through the night and I was finally truly awake the next morning. I don't care what anyone says, that wasn't normal and it wasn't just me.

OMG, what a nightmare that must have been. I have also had many surgeries and procedures and some bad experiences that I won't post here.

My daughter was not "hallucinating," because remember, the doctor told me himself that "she made a fuss." They had tranquilized her a certain time before the surgery was to be performed. He was late in performing the surgery and the med had worn off. He didn't want to wait for it to be readministered, so he performed the surgery without any thought to the fact that she would feel the pain. Then he came and told me she "made a fuss" and left the building. He never said she was hallucinating.

I should have pushed more, but I was young myself and I had no money. Any attorney would have required a retainer which I did not have. Plus the attorney I knew (and trusted at the time) told me we didn't have a credible case. It was our word against theirs. It certainly is one of the incidents in my life that I would like to "do over." The "me" of even five years later would have fought harder, that much I do know.

I still remember being wheeled into the OR to have my tonsils out when I was 5. I was awake on the table and saw the ether mask coming at my face and trying to push the doctor's hand away before drifting off to sleep. That was 58 years ago and I still remember it to this day. I guess he could have told my parents I made a fuss too because I tried to shove the mask off. I think it is considered normal for people, esp. kids to be scared and try to fight falling asleep. But for doctors who see it everyday, they don't think anything of it.

In any case, I am sorry you had to live through that experience and felt helpless at the time. They do explain things much better today than they did years ago. Of course everyone has to sign a waiver acknowledging the risks associated with surgery so that is one reason people don't win as many malpractice suits as you would think. Signing the paper means they asked all their questions and understood all the risks.

[sophiamarie]

On 1/8/2014 pridequeen said:

lots of misinformation going on here. I worked on developing electronic medical records for a LARGE hospital for many years. Everyone who has access to enter information into a patient's chart has a unique numbered sign-on. It is monitored daily for any type of fraud. It is almost impossible for someone to falsify a medical record since they leave behind a "thumbprint" and would get caught. The doctors who review the records on each patient has to sign off on entries made by other personnel with a time/date electronic stamp. Never in my 25 years of working in healthcare did I see a doctor cover up or falsify a record. That is not to say it has NEVER happened in history but if and when mistakes are made (and I said mistakes) they are brought into the open and more investigation goes on to see what could have happened, every day hospitals work on protecting patient privacy, who has access to medical records and as I said daily monitoring.

As for the incident with the tonsillectomy, I have had several surgeries in my life and coming out of anesthesia can cause hallucinations, bad dreams for days, movements that to an observer might appear the person is having a seizure and so on. To the uninformed, it can be scary, but not malpractice or cause for lawsuits. Certainly mistakes can happen but as I said they are then used in M&M conferences to discuss how to not let them happen again. And I am not making light of a medical mistake that anyone personally has experienced, I'm only saying that medicine can be scary when you think about the fact that these doctors cut open your chest, your brain, your gut and do the impossible. When I first started out, I was allowed to observe 3 surgeries, a brain tumor removal, a colon removal for cancer, and an orthopaedic surgery. All of those were when I worked in anesthesia and there is a lot going on in OR's. Anyway, just thought I would give my perspective on medical records since I spent 4 years developing and training on electronic medical records.

Thank you for this post. I also meant to say that the word "hallucination" can sound very scary to a young mother, therefore the doctor said she made a "fuss". No biggie there.

[kdgn]

I had my tonsils removed as an adult, in my late 20's. My doctor told me removing them at my age was challenging for the patient especially with bleeding. Adults who remain awake during the procedure do better so that's what I chose. I was awake for their removal. Yes, I was given some huge black pill that was supposed to practically knock me out. It didn't, not until after I was in the recovery room. I still remember most of it, while not fondly it's not a terrifying memory either.

When mom had her first cataract surgery, her eye surgeon used another practice's surgical center/staff. Mom was the last patient before their lunch. I saw the doctor leave and less than 15 minutes later mom was wheeled out. She was still heavily sedated. I had seen others leave, wide awake and alert. I needed help getting her from the wheelchair into my car. I half carried, half dragged her from my car into her apartment. She slept the rest of the day.

At her follow-up appointment I let her surgeon know exactly what happened and that I was beyond unhappy. They had over dosed her on anesthesia, released her too soon because lunch had arrived. I'm not sure what all the doctor did but when her second cataract surgery too place it was at an entirely different surgical center. She was awake and alert after the surgery and left under her own power, full steam ahead with her walker.

My husband woke up when surgery was started on him. The anesthesiologist knew it immediately, stopped the surgery and got him completely under. After surgery he came out to let me know what happened and that my husband probably wouldn't remember a thing. Then the surgeon came out and spoke to me...and said the same thing about the memory. Wrong. He remembers to this day and it's something that has to be noted if he ever needs surgery again.