Community Chat

[Sushismom]

Even after being in the computer field for 30 years, I wouldn't feel qualified to answer a question about electronic hospital records since I've never dealt with them.

I would believe that Pit's answer would pertain to the majority, if not all, hospitals in this country.

[Irshgrl31201]

On 1/8/2014 Sushismom said:

Even after being in the computer field for 30 years, I wouldn't feel qualified to answer a question about electronic hospital records since I've never dealt with them.

I would believe that Pit's answer would pertain to the majority, if not all, hospitals in this country.

I would think so too. I posted the answer to the question I asked her last night about this very subject and this was her answer. Looks like it cannot be deleted but can be reentered.

The software programs here won't allow you to delete. You can "re-enter corrected information", but you can't delete from the patient's electronic record. The are policies as to how to make corrected entries say for example later I see that what I entered as the patient's BP is not correct, I can re-enter the information for that time period, but I can't delete the original entry. And it records that I am doing that. And if I went in and corrected someone else's entry it would record that I am the one making the correction, not the primary source.

[scotttie]

What an alarming story Ford.

1. One thing people should know is that (depending on where you live of course) oral surgeons are not necessarily medical doctors. They have extra training in dental but they are not MD's. I found this out when dd worked for an oral surgeon who had a medical degree as well as a dental degree. I will never allow a dentist to administer anasthesia of that type to my children.

2. Dentists often practice outside their expertise, for example doing braces etc.

3. WE must always always be proactive regarding what is going on with us in the hospital. Believe me (and I know there are many others here): you MUST take responsibility for your own health care. Doctors/nurses are very sorry when they screw up but who suffers?

4. I am not in any way at all "anti" medical professionals. I have just learned through the years that (a) they are human and humans make mistakes (b)if a doctor is arrogant and acts like God almighty--run away and (c)if you(or your child) have a chronic ailment learn as much as you can about it, research, join groups etc. and ADVOCATE. Learn to pick your battles but when you know you are right raise the roof if you must. And ONLY raise the roof when it's a big deal...not just because you didn't get your ice water or something.

[Irshgrl31201]

On 1/8/2014 Ford1224 said:

On 1/8/2014 Panda Wrangler said:

I'm sorry your daughter was treated that way. I have heard this story before, patients who woke up during a surgery thinking they were going to die and freaked out of their minds.

Even though she is alright now I wish you had made it known publicly. I feel with all my heart that your daughter isn't the only patient this doctor abused and I'd like patients like this to be heard. Too many stories like your daughter's and then they finally get listened to and somebody starts watching stupid doctors like that.

I had the other situation happen to me. I was put under at 8 am for a simple procedure, supposed to home by lunchtime. First thing I remember was being shaken and the drapes in the room being pulled and the lights turned on, it was almost 9:30 pm. Nobody even tried to explain that except, "Every one reacts differently to anesthesia. I'd had it before as kid and there wasn't any problems and staff carried on as if there was none this time. I couldn't stay awake, the nurses took my BP through the night and I was finally truly awake the next morning. I don't care what anyone says, that wasn't normal and it wasn't just me.

OMG, what a nightmare that must have been. I have also had many surgeries and procedures and some bad experiences that I won't post here.

My daughter was not "hallucinating," because remember, the doctor told me himself that "she made a fuss." They had tranquilized her a certain time before the surgery was to be performed. He was late in performing the surgery and the med had worn off. He didn't want to wait for it to be readministered, so he performed the surgery without any thought to the fact that she would feel the pain. Then he came and told me she "made a fuss" and left the building. He never said she was hallucinating.

I should have pushed more, but I was young myself and I had no money. Any attorney would have required a retainer which I did not have. Plus the attorney I knew (and trusted at the time) told me we didn't have a credible case. It was our word against theirs. It certainly is one of the incidents in my life that I would like to "do over." The "me" of even five years later would have fought harder, that much I do know.

So not only the doctor but the anesthesiologist and the nurses in the room let him continue the surgery when they knew your daughter wasn't sufficiently sedated?

[occasionalrain]

On 1/8/2014 azterry! said:

On 1/8/2014 occasional rain said:

To say that mistakes are acceptable because the doctors and nurses are human is unbelievable. Their chosen profession is one where mistakes are unacceptable. There are people who are careless and there are those who take their job seriously and avoid mistakes because they are vigilant, they double check.

No child should die from a tonsillectomy. That this one did is on the hospital and it's staff. If she had a preexisting condition the doctor should have discovered it before the surgery and planned for it.

To say that mistakes should never happen is what we'd all like to believe. To think that doctors and nurses have super-human power to anticipate absolutely everything that could happen is fantasy.

Medicine is not an exact science. The human body doesn't always react and behave the way it is supposed to. A doctor cannot "discover" a pre-existing condition in many cases, unless the patient or parent tells them about it.

You're right. No child should die from a tonsillectomy. At this point, we don't have all the facts of exactly what else what going on with this particular child, do we?

We know that she saw two doctors prior to the surgery. We expect that tests were done prior to determine if she had a preexisting condition, heart, blood clotting... but did she?

Would you be as accepting of human error if it were made by those in charge of nuclear bombs? These mistakes happen daily in every hospital and most if not all are due to carelessness, lack of sleep, drug use, alcoholism. No medical professional charged with patient care should be working double shifts.

[LilacTree]

On 1/8/2014 Irshgrl31201 said:

On 1/8/2014 JaneMarple said:

On 1/8/2014 Ford1224 said:

On 1/8/2014 Melania2 said:

I am sorry you experienced that. It had to be very frightening.

In is so wrong.

I get your point that it can and does happen....why don't people get that and blame families/patients? Your examples show that.

Wait till it happens to them.

One of my daughters has worked in hospitals for 16 years. She is not a medical professional, she is in the IT Department which runs their computer systems. But she hears a lot . . . news travels fast in these hospitals, especially bad news. There is a "closed mouth" policy, but they do talk among themselves. There are many incidents with unaware patients that never get reported to the families, let's just say that.

It is being said more and more, a hospital is not necessarily the safest place to be anymore. One has to be one's own advocate, if possible . . . or the family must know they have to be alert to what is going on at all times.

Ford I would like to ask a question that came up last night.

Do you think that with the modern technology of entering the patient's information in the computer that said information can be manipulated or falsisified?

Jane, I asked Pitdakota about this last night because of her abundance of experience and this is what she said.

The software programs here won't allow you to delete. You can "re-enter corrected information", but you can't delete from the patient's electronic record. The are policies as to how to make corrected entries say for example later I see that what I entered as the patient's BP is not correct, I can re-enter the information for that time period, but I can't delete the original entry. And it records that I am doing that. And if I went in and corrected someone else's entry it would record that I am the one making the correction, not the primary source.

With these new hospital systems I do not doubt that this is correct. I will ask my daughter about this, as she installs these systems and trains the nurses how to use them. She will know what's possible and what isn't. As I said, she has never told me anything negative about how the hospital systems work.

I only know what I knew when I was working with computers which was ten years ago now. I'm sure all the programs are different than they were then. And perhaps accounting and tax programs are still very easily manipulated since lives are not at stake. It's worth looking into, as it is a very important and vital topic.

[pinkskates4]

On 1/8/2014 Ford1224 said:

On 1/8/2014 azterry! said:

On 1/8/2014 Sushismom said:

I don't think anyone is denying mistakes happen in hospitals. And most have said if the hospital was at fault, they need to be held responsible.

However, the fact remains that only one side of this story has been told. That's the point many are trying to make.

ITA.

There will always be mistakes because medical personnel are human.

This was a horrible thing for your daughter, Ford, but I do have to add that this in no way "proves" anything for the Oakland case. We do not have all the facts and the rush to paint the hospital as the wrong doer is just as wrong as vilifying the mother.

This is exactly why I have not posted on that thread.

There is a bill waiting in Congress regarding the subject of hospitals/doctors admitting guilt in situations where they were at fault. At present all they have to do is express sorrow to the family, but they don't have to admit to being responsible.

This bill will require them to admit responsibility, but not necessarily malpractice. Sometimes all the family wants to hear is what happened and have someone take responsibility.

How long this bill will languish in the halls of Congress is another issue.

If they were at fault and are guilty, how is that not malpractice?

[LilacTree]

On 1/8/2014 beammeupscottie said:

What an alarming story Ford.

1. One thing people should know is that (depending on where you live of course) oral surgeons are not necessarily medical doctors. They have extra training in dental but they are not MD's. I found this out when dd worked for an oral surgeon who had a medical degree as well as a dental degree. I will never allow a dentist to administer anasthesia of that type to my children.

2. Dentists often practice outside their expertise, for example doing braces etc.

3. WE must always always be proactive regarding what is going on with us in the hospital. Believe me (and I know there are many others here): you MUST take responsibility for your own health care. Doctors/nurses are very sorry when they screw up but who suffers?

4. I am not in any way at all "anti" medical professionals. I have just learned through the years that (a) they are human and humans make mistakes (b)if a doctor is arrogant and acts like God almighty--run away and (c)if you(or your child) have a chronic ailment learn as much as you can about it, research, join groups etc. and ADVOCATE. Learn to pick your battles but when you know you are right raise the roof if you must. And ONLY raise the roof when it's a big deal...not just because you didn't get your ice water or something.

Excellent post. ITA entirely with everything you said.

[scotttie]

On 1/8/2014 Ford1224 said:

On 1/8/2014 Panda Wrangler said:

I'm sorry your daughter was treated that way. I have heard this story before, patients who woke up during a surgery thinking they were going to die and freaked out of their minds.

Even though she is alright now I wish you had made it known publicly. I feel with all my heart that your daughter isn't the only patient this doctor abused and I'd like patients like this to be heard. Too many stories like your daughter's and then they finally get listened to and somebody starts watching stupid doctors like that.

I had the other situation happen to me. I was put under at 8 am for a simple procedure, supposed to home by lunchtime. First thing I remember was being shaken and the drapes in the room being pulled and the lights turned on, it was almost 9:30 pm. Nobody even tried to explain that except, "Every one reacts differently to anesthesia. I'd had it before as kid and there wasn't any problems and staff carried on as if there was none this time. I couldn't stay awake, the nurses took my BP through the night and I was finally truly awake the next morning. I don't care what anyone says, that wasn't normal and it wasn't just me.

OMG, what a nightmare that must have been. I have also had many surgeries and procedures and some bad experiences that I won't post here.

My daughter was not "hallucinating," because remember, the doctor told me himself that "she made a fuss." They had tranquilized her a certain time before the surgery was to be performed. He was late in performing the surgery and the med had worn off. He didn't want to wait for it to be readministered, so he performed the surgery without any thought to the fact that she would feel the pain. Then he came and told me she "made a fuss" and left the building. He never said she was hallucinating.

I should have pushed more, but I was young myself and I had no money. Any attorney would have required a retainer which I did not have. Plus the attorney I knew (and trusted at the time) told me we didn't have a credible case. It was our word against theirs. It certainly is one of the incidents in my life that I would like to "do over." The "me" of even five years later would have fought harder, that much I do know.

Ford, I am sure your daughter was not hallucinating. My cousin had an experience that he was prepped for surgery and then there was a shift change. The surgery team did not follow the proper protocols so that my cousin was administered the drug they give you to paralyze you before the intubated him. He couldn't breath and could have died when someone finally discovered the mistake.

Personally, I was having a laparascope done and I was afraid of anasthesia at that time so I asked for a spinal blocking (forget what you call it) rather than general. The doctor started on me and I wasn't numb!! I told her and asked her to stop but she just kept on going. The anasthesiologist asked me if I wanted to "go under" and of course I said yes.

Needless to say I never went to that doctor again and wrote her a scathing letter.

********

People think you can sue for malpractice but mostly you cannot unless you can prove permanent damage or that the person would not have died anyway.

[LilacTree]

On 1/8/2014 beammeupscottie said:

On 1/8/2014 Ford1224 said:

On 1/8/2014 Panda Wrangler said:

I'm sorry your daughter was treated that way. I have heard this story before, patients who woke up during a surgery thinking they were going to die and freaked out of their minds.

Even though she is alright now I wish you had made it known publicly. I feel with all my heart that your daughter isn't the only patient this doctor abused and I'd like patients like this to be heard. Too many stories like your daughter's and then they finally get listened to and somebody starts watching stupid doctors like that.

I had the other situation happen to me. I was put under at 8 am for a simple procedure, supposed to home by lunchtime. First thing I remember was being shaken and the drapes in the room being pulled and the lights turned on, it was almost 9:30 pm. Nobody even tried to explain that except, "Every one reacts differently to anesthesia. I'd had it before as kid and there wasn't any problems and staff carried on as if there was none this time. I couldn't stay awake, the nurses took my BP through the night and I was finally truly awake the next morning. I don't care what anyone says, that wasn't normal and it wasn't just me.

OMG, what a nightmare that must have been. I have also had many surgeries and procedures and some bad experiences that I won't post here.

My daughter was not "hallucinating," because remember, the doctor told me himself that "she made a fuss." They had tranquilized her a certain time before the surgery was to be performed. He was late in performing the surgery and the med had worn off. He didn't want to wait for it to be readministered, so he performed the surgery without any thought to the fact that she would feel the pain. Then he came and told me she "made a fuss" and left the building. He never said she was hallucinating.

I should have pushed more, but I was young myself and I had no money. Any attorney would have required a retainer which I did not have. Plus the attorney I knew (and trusted at the time) told me we didn't have a credible case. It was our word against theirs. It certainly is one of the incidents in my life that I would like to "do over." The "me" of even five years later would have fought harder, that much I do know.

Ford, I am sure your daughter was not hallucinating. My cousin had an experience that he was prepped for surgery and then there was a shift change. The surgery team did not follow the proper protocols so that my cousin was administered the drug they give you to paralyze you before the intubated him. He couldn't breath and could have died when someone finally discovered the mistake.

Personally, I was having a laparascope done and I was afraid of anasthesia at that time so I asked for a spinal blocking (forget what you call it) rather than general. The doctor started on me and I wasn't numb!! I told her and asked her to stop but she just kept on going. The anasthesiologist asked me if I wanted to "go under" and of course I said yes.

Needless to say I never went to that doctor again and wrote her a scathing letter.

********

People think you can sue for malpractice but mostly you cannot unless you can prove permanent damage or that the person would not have died anyway.

Exactly. The medical profession is well protected. Most "professionals" stick together. All the fuss about lawsuits and the high malpractice insurance premiums the medical profession pays is not anywhere near equal to the amount of mistakes they make and get away with.