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‎09-29-2017 05:28 PM
This is like the issue of prostitution. No matter what the situation, what the woman says, there are women who insist that every female on the planet who exchanges sexual favors for money or possessions IS being exploited, period, "even if they don't realize/don't understand that they are."
Balderdash, outside of human trafficking.There are many things a woman can do to earn money that isn't prostitution. Will she make as much money? Probably not - but she will keep the self-respect that supposedly matters above all (or should) to the "all are exploited" insisters. She may have to get a second job, or accept welfare. But she could make the choice to do that. If she instead makes the choice to sleep with men for money instead of working as hard as she would have to work otherwise, that IS a choice.
And yet people insist that women who are selling themselves in one way or another are "exploited" and it's always "not their fault/they're not responsible for understanding."
Pleez.
‎09-29-2017 05:51 PM
I don't think this thread is about prostitutes or whether the Bunnies who slept with Hefner were exploited and objectified (although I think they were).
It's Hefner I have no respect for. I found it creepy that these young woman were promoted as following their dreams. I also find it creepy that the mazgazine was a famous masturbation tool.
‎09-29-2017 05:56 PM
@suzyQ3 wrote:
@Preds wrote:The woman chose. Yes, he used them, but he told them that when they came in. He paid them and laid them. He didn't hide the fact and they were educated and kept safe. Do I agree with the situation ... no, but at least these woman had a protecter and were keep safe, educated and most went on to a good life ... off the streets.
He was a wild generation man in a wild generation time that made it work. He didn't use brutality to "control" his woman. He didn't degrade them any worse than the rappers do now. He never called the B's and W's like the lyrics heard everyday now.
@Preds, I understand what you're saying, but the sentence I bolded bothers me very much. First of all, I don't know that it is totally accurate. But more important is that is sounds like the kind of rationalization I've heard for other types of exploitation.
I understand, but I didn't word it right. I don't even know how to word it, because some made it out and made it better, some didn't. These women looked for a way out of something other than the expected at that time. He found them. Strong woman used him to get what they needed and wanted.
Still not getting my point out because I don't know how to. OK ... Strippers ... a lot of your poll dancers and strippers are working to make the money to pay for college. Way to make good money fast, protection (hopefully) and spend days getting their education. Sugar, still can't explain my thoughts. LOL
‎09-29-2017 06:36 PM
@Moonchilde wrote:This is like the issue of prostitution. No matter what the situation, what the woman says, there are women who insist that every female on the planet who exchanges sexual favors for money or possessions IS being exploited, period, "even if they don't realize/don't understand that they are."
Balderdash, outside of human trafficking.There are many things a woman can do to earn money that isn't prostitution. Will she make as much money? Probably not - but she will keep the self-respect that supposedly matters above all (or should) to the "all are exploited" insisters. She may have to get a second job, or accept welfare. But she could make the choice to do that. If she instead makes the choice to sleep with men for money instead of working as hard as she would have to work otherwise, that IS a choice.
And yet people insist that women who are selling themselves in one way or another are "exploited" and it's always "not their fault/they're not responsible for understanding."
Pleez.
@Moonchilde Your post is doing exactly the same thing-using one big paintbrush to determine why a woman ends up as a prostitute as you say that posters who say that all women are being expolited is just "bladerdash".
Somethimes the choice is not so easily available and I'm really surprised to read that all prostitutes can just get welfare, a second job, etc. etc. etc.
The sale of sex is more complex than just assuming that the woman chooses to be in that profession.
I am sorry to see lack of compassion for women "of the streets"; the answers are neither simple nor one size fits all.
‎09-29-2017 07:03 PM
@Cakers3 wrote:
@Moonchilde wrote:This is like the issue of prostitution. No matter what the situation, what the woman says, there are women who insist that every female on the planet who exchanges sexual favors for money or possessions IS being exploited, period, "even if they don't realize/don't understand that they are."
Balderdash, outside of human trafficking.There are many things a woman can do to earn money that isn't prostitution. Will she make as much money? Probably not - but she will keep the self-respect that supposedly matters above all (or should) to the "all are exploited" insisters. She may have to get a second job, or accept welfare. But she could make the choice to do that. If she instead makes the choice to sleep with men for money instead of working as hard as she would have to work otherwise, that IS a choice.
And yet people insist that women who are selling themselves in one way or another are "exploited" and it's always "not their fault/they're not responsible for understanding."
Pleez.
@Moonchilde Your post is doing exactly the same thing-using one big paintbrush to determine why a woman ends up as a prostitute as you say that posters who say that all women are being expolited is just "bladerdash".
Somethimes the choice is not so easily available and I'm really surprised to read that all prostitutes can just get welfare, a second job, etc. etc. etc.
The sale of sex is more complex than just assuming that the woman chooses to be in that profession.
I am sorry to see lack of compassion for women "of the streets"; the answers are neither simple nor one size fits all.
My point is that one size doesn't fit all when it comes to the postulation that all women who sell their favors only do so because they are being exploited and for no other reason, and that no woman would ever do it unless they were "forced" to.
The sale of sex is more complex than just assuming that the woman does NOT choose to be in that profession.
Far from using "one big paintbrush" to describe anyone, I have instead presented an alternate POV to "all women who are in prostitution are in it because they were forced, coerced, sold, controlled," etc.
There is no one-size-fits-all for either "side" of peoples' beliefs about this issue, and that was my point - that "they're all exploited, full stop, end of story" is not the only possibility, however much some women insist that it is.
I never said a word about "why a woman ends up a prostitute" other than perhaps she genuinely chooses that of her own free will - which is a postulation that from your comments (and the comments of others here) you seem to categorically reject as impossible. I never said that there are never any contributing circumstances, vulnerabilities or mental issues, or that every woman who becomes a prostitute does so because they just love it; but some do. It's not all totally out of the woman's control, every time.
Not every woman who sells herself is "on the streets" or does so to eat. Not every woman who sells herself is an object of pity. But the feeling within this thread has been that every woman who does so does it only due to external forces that somehow forced her to make that choice - there could never be any other reason. Not so.
‎09-29-2017 07:30 PM - edited ‎09-29-2017 07:32 PM
I don't rejoice in his death but he didn't do much to advance equal rights for women, or as he would have put it, "girls."
May he RIP but for goodness sake--he made pots of money out of women. He wasn't a porn merchant by today's standards--the photos were very mild stuff. But he was smarmy and sleazy, imo. Always in the silk bathrobe. There's an old term: lounge lizard. That's what he seemed like to me.
‎09-29-2017 07:37 PM
Many prostitutes were runaway girls who met a guy at the Greyhound bus station, or a shelter or the like, and given a song and dance about how the guy would take care of her. Oh, but he needs her to do a favor for a friend of his first.
And so it begins. Abuse, beatings and drugs soon follow. Coercion? Nah, couldn't be.
Hookers don't get welfare unless they have kids.
‎09-29-2017 07:40 PM
‎09-29-2017 07:51 PM
Here's a fun article from Business Insider about the evolution of the Playboy Bunny attributes through the years:
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-playboy-bunnies-have-changed-from-1960-to-today-2015-10
You can Google the Business Insider title to get to the article yourself.
‎09-29-2017 08:30 PM
As I stated previously, you can believe whatever you want, and sign up for any religion you want, and think what they tell you is the truth. I honestly don't care. What I find peculiar is that you keep insisting you were called narrow minded, when I was actually thinking of someone else, and hadn't even noticed your comments until you "took umbrage" with what you misconstrued to be an accusation. I think someone else's comment is what you were referring to.
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