Community Chat

[dooBdoo]

         General comment, not directed at a specific person or post:  any source has been and will be criticized.   Particularly in Wiki entries (which can be composed or edited by anyone), we can look up the controversies associated with, and even excoriations of, any source.   Our interests are best served by reading a wide variety of sources rather than staying in a "bubble" of limited references or just those that are associated with each other or always "lean" in the same direction.

         In my experience, the moderators sometimes remove the active links to sites that are clearly political -- we always have the option of posting the reference information without a hyperlink.   Therefore, no one's ability to read more about a topic is being restricted by anyone.   

[tansy]

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@software wrote:

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@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

@software wrote:

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@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

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@software wrote:

Funny that your post was edited.

I don't have a problem with your source.

I went and peeked at the bottom 10, whew, my state is NOT on it!

At least not now.

@Oznell

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Your states are doing well because they don't take on the burden of the states that payer higher taxes across the board. So yes it is not a good source because it is not explaining why they are doing better or what would happen if they actually had to pay what others pay.

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Paying higher taxes?   In what way and for what?

Property Tax as well as State tax just to name a few,  look at the findings for NJ, NY, Calif and Conn compared to the top on the list. And you will see the difference in how we pay more and get less in return.

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That's the fault of YOUR state.   And in the case of CA and NY, for example, salaries are so much higher than states with lower taxes.    Modest salaries, modest taxes.  I don't know why you think you get less, in areas with higher property tax, you get better schools, more city services, such as trash pickup, etc.

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There are more taxes than state, local and property taxes.  It would be difficult to discuss here without being poofed.

[dooBdoo]

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@software wrote:

Don't apologize, there's always someone with an opposite view of everything

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@Oznell wrote:

Sunshine45, thanks.  I honestly didn't see any political material-- I was too excited to get the top !0 info!

I'm not totally surprised though that there might have been something political.  Although I don't know for sure, the name "Laffer" in the title suggests that Arthur Laffer is involved with it.  He was an economic force in the Reagan administration...

Apologies if I unwittingly posted anything political--  my bent of course is in the Reagan direction, but truly I don't want to force anything down anyone's throat, any more than any other of my fellow poiitical junkies of all persuasions on this board.

i enjoy so many people on here, even though we have opposite political views, perhaps!

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          @software,  So true!   Always a different perspective and that's how we learn -- by hearing the other views.    That's something I really like about these forums...  it's fascinating to see how many different ways we can look at one topic.    I like being able to say, "I never thought of it that way."

[jaxs mom]

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@software wrote:

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@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

@software wrote:

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@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

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@software wrote:

Funny that your post was edited.

I don't have a problem with your source.

I went and peeked at the bottom 10, whew, my state is NOT on it!

At least not now.

@Oznell

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Your states are doing well because they don't take on the burden of the states that payer higher taxes across the board. So yes it is not a good source because it is not explaining why they are doing better or what would happen if they actually had to pay what others pay.

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Paying higher taxes?   In what way and for what?

Property Tax as well as State tax just to name a few,  look at the findings for NJ, NY, Calif and Conn compared to the top on the list. And you will see the difference in how we pay more and get less in return.

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That's the fault of YOUR state.   And in the case of CA and NY, for example, salaries are so much higher than states with lower taxes.    Modest salaries, modest taxes.  I don't know why you think you get less, in areas with higher property tax, you get better schools, more city services, such as trash pickup, etc.

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My mom always uses that excuse, that salaries are higher in CA, my experience doesn't bear that out though. We moved to a state with no income tax that also has a lower cost of living and salaries were the same. So, yes it was more money in our pocket to move than to stay in CA. It's also the prime reason why even though jobs were offered to move back, it was never a consideration. 

property taxes and trash pickup? In CA trash pickup was not included in the property taxes, it was always paid directly to the local trash company. And I lived in both No CA and So CA in various cities. 

[Oznell]

Thanks, software!  I enjoy your exuberance and encouragement! 

This whole thing-- It's a fine line though, isn't it?  Of course I'm not sorry to post the list at all, and to me it makes sense--  at least some of those ten states that I'm familiar with seem to be following strategies that are good for their economic health.

But, I wasn't realizing that the link might have some extraneous political stuff on it, as someone suggested it might, in addition to the good economic news.  I didn't check, at any rate.  And I want to be transparent, not try to slyly "slip things by" the moderators, whose rules are that there be nothing political.

We all have our world views, which probably shape our politics (or is it the other way around? That would be a good debate.)   So it's hard sometimes to distinguish what's general enough to be 'acceptable", from what is the product of a very particular viewpoint that violates the rules...

[Spurt]

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@Drythe wrote:

@Oznell

Regardless of source, I'm just sick to see my state near the top.  If true, it simply means that NC still has some natural resources, to exploit, a few great spots without gated communities, and our Outer Banks are still a bit unscathed, still have the wild horses there.

Please, say it ain't so.  

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@Drythe

That is so true Drythe......when I was young I always wondered why one of my aunts said she was sad when she was witnessing such growth in our area, I told her that means more jobs and perhaps better lives for people....But now that I'm older and somewhat "wiser'  I understand what she means.....they are building so much around here and expanding so much I wonder if we will even have a tree left!!!!!  And the poor wild animals where will they go??????????? what will happen to them???? Its nice to see a field of wild flowers in the spring....but I wonder if it will be traded in for more cement and buildings and also empty apartments, more shopping centers with the traffic congestion that comes with it???????????   Success and growth also come with a price too!!!

[itiswhatitis]

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@Spurt wrote:

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@itiswhatitis wrote:

For a balanced view of how the states are doing, better sources would be the CBO.

I also like this:

U.S. News, with deep experience in rankings and analysis, has assembled thousands of data points about the states and produced an online portal that enables anyone to easily see what makes some states stronger and draw comparisons with others. The project is powered by a Leading States Index developed by McKinsey & Company, which has extensive experience in consulting focused on the improvement of state governance.

The benchmarks reach across seven broad categories – health care, education, opportunity, economy, infrastructure, crime & corrections and government – and include 68 metrics within the larger categories. The data come from reliable governmental and private sources, and the weight assigned to each category is based on a survey that McKinsey conducted about what matters most to people about their states.

"What we've helped do is collect a wide range of data – a lot of data from publicly available sources," says McKinsey's Andre Dua. "But we've also created our own proprietary data, particularly into how citizens view the performance of governments."

Health care and education are weighted most heavily.

And for this reason, Massachusetts – which ranks No. 1 nationally in education and No. 2 in health care in all of these metrics – stands out as the overall No. 1 Best State. New Hampshire – No 1 in opportunity for its citizens – ranks No. 2 overall. Minnesota – No. 2 in opportunity, No. 5 for infrastructure – ranks No. 3.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-02-28/best-states-explores-which-states-are-be...

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I dont know if this is a reliable source either.....always check many sources and the truth lies somewhere in the middle...........Here's some comments on the source listed above:

A 2010 study criticized the US News rankings for not disclosing the relationship between their ranking methodology and the reputation of any given hospital.[5] The study stated that US News rankings matched other rankings about the market reputation of hospital brands, and alleged that US News rankings are overly influenced by brand image while doing less to assign a rank by health outcome metrics of patients who use medical services in those hospitals.[5]

Some higher education experts, such as Kevin Carey of Education Sector, have asserted that U.S. News & World Report's college rankings system is merely a list of criteria that mirrors the superficial characteristics of elite colleges and universities. According to Carey, the U.S. News ranking system is deeply flawed. Instead of focusing on the fundamental issues of how well colleges and universities educate their students and how well they prepare them to be successful after college, the magazine's rankings are almost entirely a function of three factors: fame, wealth, and exclusivity. He suggests that there are more important characteristics parents and students should research to select colleges, such as how well students are learning and how likely students are to earn a degree.[35]

“This is the prime fallacy of U.S. News: They think they’re measuring excellence, but they don’t have measures of excellence,” said Paul Glastris, editor of Washington Monthly, one of several publications that offer alternative rankings. “They don’t deliver the thing they say they deliver.”

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@Spurt that may be true, but the top ten are still the same.  So, if this publication (which is NOT political got the same results from the original source ~ which was POLITICAL) then both should be "iffy."

US News and World Report is not a political publication.  The other way to get this info is the Congressional Budget Office, though I can't find a solid link with anything explanatory based on the top ten from them.  You'd have to murk through a lot of info from them.

[itiswhatitis]

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@software wrote:

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@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

@software wrote:

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@AngusandBuddhasMom wrote:

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@software wrote:

Funny that your post was edited.

I don't have a problem with your source.

I went and peeked at the bottom 10, whew, my state is NOT on it!

At least not now.

@Oznell

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Your states are doing well because they don't take on the burden of the states that payer higher taxes across the board. So yes it is not a good source because it is not explaining why they are doing better or what would happen if they actually had to pay what others pay.

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Paying higher taxes?   In what way and for what?

Property Tax as well as State tax just to name a few,  look at the findings for NJ, NY, Calif and Conn compared to the top on the list. And you will see the difference in how we pay more and get less in return.

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That's the fault of YOUR state.   And in the case of CA and NY, for example, salaries are so much higher than states with lower taxes.    Modest salaries, modest taxes.  I don't know why you think you get less, in areas with higher property tax, you get better schools, more city services, such as trash pickup, etc.

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@software, I don't know why you couldn't take the information on its face.  I can speak for NY only.  New York's Schools are not, nor have they ever been on par with the amount of property taxes collected.  Of course, our taxes go for a lot of other things like civil service.  Sales tax, Property tax and the rest are doled out in many districts unfairly.  That has more to do with local elected officials.  

Property taxes are higher in NJ than they are in NYC proper.  That's not to say wealthier enclaves of NYS don't pay a boat load because they do.  

[itiswhatitis]

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@Oznell wrote:

I am a bit baffled that the link I provided to the state economic outlook rankings in my original post disappearred, while another one provided by another poster is left in?

But that's OK.   I think people should be able to see all different ways of determining prosperity rankings, and those interested will be easily able to seek them out.

Whatever way you judge them, I'm pleased for any and all states that are able to improve their prospects, but I'm disappointed that some posters don't want everyone to have access to a variety of points of view.

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I think yours went "poof" first because it is a political organization.  Then to be even handed (which is fine) they deleted by link as well @Oznell.  I posted links twice....from the same source though.  

[Noel7]

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@Oznell wrote:

The ALEC-Laffer State Economic Outlook Rankings for this year are out now.  The top ten rankings are:

Utah

Indiana

North Carolina

North Dakota

Tennessee

Florida

Wyoming

Arizona

Texas

Idaho

Interesting to see North Dakota up there.  I'm assuming that's because the oil boom must be continuing?  It's good to see states move up to prosperity.

I'm going to leave off the bottom 10 states, out of consideration for those of us who live in them and might get depressed!  Congrats, top ten!

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@Oznell

NY and CA are two of the wealthiest states in the Union.  CA is the 6th leading economy IN THE WORLD.  No way does any state listed beat that.