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Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,752
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

It is beyond uninformed that those who are thinking it is just the elderly that need protecting.

20 year olds, infants as well have been ravaged and died from this virus.

3 out of 4 in our state are 20-50 year olds with this virus.(not! over 65!).

I am beginning to think there are some posters who just can't be real and just want to inflame.

Otherwise, G... help us all! with the refusal or just baiting to have any caring or common sense at all.

"If you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you'll learn things you never knew. Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains? can you paint with all the colors of the wind?"
Valued Contributor
Posts: 794
Registered: ‎04-20-2020

Re: Contact Tracing

[ Edited ]

Why do people automatically assume that a business will be infected by a customer especially one who is wearing a mask when the reality is most employees live with other people who come and go that they have no control over.  People with roommates that they are not related to.  That's what has always worried me.  You may be responsible but could be a whole different story with those you live with.  

 

 

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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,286
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Contact Tracing

[ Edited ]

 

The "I have nothing to hide, so I'll accommodate government snooping or overreach" is pretty telling, and can go right into the Famous Last Words receptacle.

 

Even here, in a state (NY) with onerous regulations, the people are "the deciders" -- not the government. The weather is beautiful, and diners are seating themselves, outdoors, in their chairs, in parking lots, enjoying food and camaraderie. And no phone numbers. The state wants takeout only? That's exactly what they've got--interestingly, though, without the inspections and permits required for outdoor dining, which eateries were prepared to obtain. 

 

The people win again.



The pain they have cost us, the evils that never happened.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 21,733
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

@on the bay wrote:

It is beyond uninformed that those who are thinking it is just the elderly that need protecting.

20 year olds, infants as well have been ravaged and died from this virus.

3 out of 4 in our state are 20-50 year olds with this virus.(not! over 65!).

I am beginning to think there are some posters who just can't be real and just want to inflame.

Otherwise, G... help us all! with the refusal or just baiting to have any caring or common sense at all.


@on the bay, even if you are wearing a mask, you are spitting in the wind here. :-)

 

This paranoia about everything, especially the government, is exacerbating this crisis.


~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,496
Registered: ‎01-23-2019

If contact tracing allows us to get our lives back then sign me up.  The govement can interrogate anything and everything I've been doing, which is not much of anything. People who think this is such a terrible idea are not really understanding it's purpose or how it's been successfully implemented in other countries.  People just want to have their cake and eat it too.  Go out, no mask, do all your normal things, no contact tracing and expect to not ever get sick.  That's what we were doing before and how did that work out for us all?  New measures need to be developed to make life liveable again.  This lockdown needs to end by any and all measures possible.  If they implement it, and it works well and cases are dramatically reduced or even eliminated and we can go out and live livf, a REAL life with meaningful and fulfilling activites, wouldn't that be pretty awesome? The fact is contact tracing is not going to impact that many people.  Really only those who get test positive (which is dropping every day) and those exposed to that person.  So if you're tested positive, or find out you could be, the last thing you're probably gonna fret about is contact tracing.  I'd bet that you'd wanna know if you were exposed.  So you could act accordingly.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,752
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

@germanshepherdlove -

Yes, that is the worry, but that is what contact tracing helps with.

I wish we had more of it.

 

"If you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you'll learn things you never knew. Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains? can you paint with all the colors of the wind?"
Honored Contributor
Posts: 21,733
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Contact Tracing

[ Edited ]

@gardenman wrote:

The overall effectiveness of contact tracing varies wildly depending on the location. If NYC fully reopens and goes back to "normal" a typical resident might ride the subway five stops to get to work. Each subway car holds 260 or so people at rush hour. At each stop, some people get off and some more get on. An infected person might expose 500 or more people just riding the subway to work as the passengers in the car get on and off. Once they get to their stop and get off, they're then passing through the people waiting for a train and the people on the street. A few hundred more people could easily get exposed. Then in their workplace, they're likely to be in contact with more people and if they go out for lunch, still more people. Then they've got the walk back to the subway stop, the wait among others for their train, the trip home, making five more stops on the train and then finally they're back home. If they don't go out that night they've likely exposed over a thousand people just by going to and from work.

 

Then all of those who came into contact with the infected person need to be monitored and traced, as they could be unwitting carriers spreading the disease. And if they have similar levels of interaction and travel then each of them is potentially infecting a thousand people a day and all of those people need to be traced. If you have a thousand people exposing a thousand people each day, that's a million people a day. The numbers get crazy quickly in large population centers.

 

Contact tracing breaks down very quickly in large population centers. If you're doing it in the middle of nowhere, it can be effective, but in large population centers, you might as well just assume everyone has come into contact with someone with the virus. Contact tracing just doesn't work in large population centers.

 

We now know one of two things about this virus. Either the virus isn't as easily spread as first assumed, or the virus isn't nearly as dangerous as first assumed with many people getting it with no symptoms and just shrugging it off. And it's possible both are true.

 

If each person with the virus, infected just one uninfected person each day, by day 35 everyone in the world would have had the virus. Day one, one person has the virus. They give it to someone else and on day two there are two. Each of them then infects someone else and on day three there are four cases. Each day the number of cases doubles from the day before and by day 35 over eight billion people are infected. That clearly hasn't happened. 

 

Antibody studies in NYC have shown that between 20% and 25% of residents have likely been exposed to the virus and formed antibodies. (Assuming the antibody tests are reliable which may be assuming a lot.) That implies that most people just shrug off the virus with few if any, symptoms or ill effects. There are 8.4 million people in NYC. If 20% of them have been infected and recovered then that's 1.68 million people. Almost the total known number of infected nationally.

 

We're a country of about 330 million people. We have 1.76-ish million confirmed cases of Covid-19. That puts your odds of bumping into a known infected person about one in 187. (It's even safer than that as many of those confirmed cases have either recovered (around 94% recover) or died.) Based on what we now know, just casual contact with an infected person is very unlikely to spread the disease. (Once again if each infected person infected just one person a day we'd all already have had it.) So, the risk to each individual at this point is pretty small. If you practice safe behaviors, (mask, handwashing, etc.) the odds of you getting infected are very small. 

 

Contact tracing will largely just make people paranoid. For people who live in large population centers, they'd get ten or more notifications a day that they'd come into contact with an infected, or possibly infected person. If you think people are stressed out now, the level of stress will increase dramatically if contact tracing is deployed. If everyone who has come into contact with an infected person self-isolates, we'll become a country of hermits all living in self-isolation. 

 

Just do what you're supposed to do and you should be fine. This isn't the plague to end all plagues. Contact tracing is a tool that's largely ineffective in large population centers and is far from a panacea. Just wear your mask, wash your hands, and you'll likely be fine.


A spin on the facts doesn't make them go away. The theme of this post is that the virus is not as dangerous as health experts believe. I'll stick with the health experts.

 

Contact testing of course isn't perfect, even when the suspect carrier or ill person has not been around tons of people. But it is one important step to take.


~Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle~ Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Valued Contributor
Posts: 794
Registered: ‎04-20-2020

Contact tracing without first making it mandatory to wear a mask? 

 

I still am living in an area where our governor refuses to make it mandatory.

 

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,752
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

Re: Contact Tracing

[ Edited ]

 The people "win" and die over it.

"If you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you'll learn things you never knew. Can you sing with all the voices of the mountains? can you paint with all the colors of the wind?"
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,120
Registered: ‎03-29-2019

Re: Contact Tracing

[ Edited ]

Okay, let me throw this out there.

 

 

 

Would people be okay with having a chip implanted under their skin that monitored everywhere they went and how long they were there?

 

 

Who here would be the first to get it?

 

 

 

This would be done to control the virus of course.

 

 

After all, people have nothing to hide, right?

The Sky looks different when you have someone you love up there.