Community Chat

[alliswell]

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@Anonymous032819 wrote:

I don't think that a guy holding the door open for me is "chivalry".

I think that it's just being nice.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I hold doors open for others, and I'm do it because it's the nice thing to do.

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 Whether it is chivalry or politeness or good manners or common sense, it is also being "kind."

[alliswell]

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@Venezia wrote:

Ummm...isn't it a bit sexist to say that a woman can't be chivalrous?  In this day and age, don't we have equal employment opportunities?  Why can't a woman be a knight?  

I'll have to do some research, to see if there have ever been any female knights during the course of history!

(ETA:  Found this - "Since there is no female equivalent to a Knight Bachelor, women are always appointed to an order of chivalry. Women who are appointed to the Most Noble Order of the Garter or the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle are given the title of Lady rather than Dame.")

Went further and found that there were, indeed, female knights during the Middle Ages.  Great reading, if anyone is interested.  There goes that argument about chivalry being sexist!

Female Knights

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   As I was reading your post, I thought of Joan of Arc @Venezia 

[Venezia]

@alliswell- Yes, Joan of Arc was exactly who came to mind for me, too!  Just one example.  

[suzyQ3]

It seems the majority of posters here mention that good manners transcend gender. So maybe we can amend the dictionary definition of the word "chivalry" to mean being kind and thoughtful, period.

[cherry]

from chivalry today

snip

The term may sound familiar, but … gosh, it has been a long time since that social studies class in high school or the college English literature course. It has something to do with suits of armor and opening the door for a lady, right?

Don’t be embarrassed, “chivalry” is a word not often heard today, and a lot of people really don’t know what it means. Let’s define the term before we go any further so nobody feels like the class dunce. Here’s what Webster’s Dictionary has to offer:

Chivalry:

• Gallantry, courtesy and honor.
• The noble qualities a knight was supposed to have, such as courage and a readiness to help the weak.
• The demonstration of any of these qualities.

That is a precise definition to be sure, but it does leave some unanswered questions. Let’s consider a different approach.

Illustration of a knighting ceremony taken from a 14th century manuscript.

From the Ten Commandments of the Bible, to The Eightfold Path of Zen, to All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten, people throughout history have searched for a way to define and quantify admirable behavior. The code of chivalry is, at its heart, simply a handbook for good conduct. But chivalry was not a mandate from the powerful to the downtrodden, nor a directive from the chosen unto the masses. It was a set of limitations which the strong and mighty placed upon themselves with the realization that setting a good example sends a message which is far more powerful than any words on paper.

Today, we’re not too different from those knights in the Middle Ages — we have a great deal of wealth and resources and freedom at our disposal, and we can use (or misuse) them in nearly any way we like.

Perhaps that’s why people are finding the concept of chivalry so relevant to modern life. Perhaps, like those knights in shining armor hundreds of years ago, we want to experience the satisfaction of knowing that we have championed the right causes and embraced the right principles, not because we were told to do so, but simply because we have chosen to follow that path.

In short, that’s what chivalry is — a choice. The choice to do the right things, for the right reasons, at the right times. And that’s a definition that even your social studies teacher probably would have approved of.

[Porcelain]

It's not purely good manners, though. With chivalry or people being gentlemen and ladies, pure practicality and physical strength aren't the main differentiators in who holds a door for whom. There is a gender component that is checked for first.

Let's say there's a little man who is older than me. Politeness would dictate that I hold the door for him because of my relative strength and youth. But...if we are doing ladies and gentlemen or chivalry--I would graciously accept and appreciate him holding the door for me, acknowledging that because he is a man that would be his role.

With other women, and many men, I do good manners. With some men I quickly try to calculate whether doing gentlemen and ladies would give him (and me) a little lift. And sometimes I am wrong!

[Karie2022]

Oh my...I didn't think this post would take off like that....really it was just an observation on my part, not meant to define chivalry vs. good manners, I guess I put them under the same umbrella.... I notice it more because I never had that in my life, my father was not like that, nor my brother or my husband, so to me it's very nice and refreshing to see acts of kindness, whether it's defined as chivalrous, good manners, or thoughtfulness. Yes, there are differences, but again it's all good.😊

[cherry]

@Karie2022  it was a lovely post and many of us enjoyed it

[sunshine 919]

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@cherry wrote:

@Karie2022  it was a lovely post and many of us enjoyed it

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Yes we did and we understood what you meant.

[QueenDanceALot]

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

It seems the majority of posters here mention that good manners transcend gender. So maybe we can amend the dictionary definition of the word "chivalry" to mean being kind and thoughtful, period.

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@suzyQ3 

But that would mean one less thing that people can argue about here.