Community Chat

[MorningLover]

What is 5G?

5G is the 5th generation mobile network. It is a new global wireless standard after 1G, 2G, 3G, and 4G networks. 5G enables a new kind of network that is designed to connect virtually everyone and everything together including machines, objects, and devices.

5G wireless technology is meant to deliver higher multi-Gbps peak data speeds,ultra low latency, more reliability, massive network capacity, increased availability, and a more uniform user experience to more users. Higher performance and improved efficiency empower new user experiences and connects new industries.

Who invented 5G?

No one company or person owns 5G, but there are several companies within the mobile ecosystem that are contributing to bringing 5G to life.

*To understand 5G, it’s helpful to understand what came before it.

Broadly, the first generation of mobile technology, 1G, was about voice—the ability to use a phone in a car, or away from home really took root here.

The advent of 2G introduced a short-messaging layer—pieces of which can still be seen in today’s texting features.

The move to 3G provided the core network speeds needed to launch smartphones.

And 4G, with its high data-transfer rates, gave us video with minimal buffering and gave rise to many of the connected devices and services that we rely on and enjoy today.

Now, people are beginning to experience 5G and its transformative capabilities. ~ Verizon

[jackthebear]

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@maximillian wrote:

It does sound serious.  My question is: why is this getting serious publicity just now?  It sounds like officials have known about the potential problems for some months. 

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5G has been in the public eye for at least a year, and now the airlines raise concerns.

not saying the issues should be dismissed but there has been plenty of time to look into it

[BlueFinch]

Now the networks are blaming the airlines for not preparing. They're voluntarily holding back on the 5G in certain areas to review issues.

For over two years, all we've heard about is 5G taking over. As it opens up, suddenly there's a bag of worms?

Is this simply a case of procrastination in adequately preparing, or are there issues that weren't anticipated, which is being suggested? Really? Not expected? Either case is baffling and disappointing.

We should expect more from those 'improving' our technology. We should never have fears that it places us in danger. Oh well...

[Snoopp]

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@maximillian wrote:

It does sound serious.  My question is: why is this getting serious publicity just now?  It sounds like officials have known about the potential problems for some months. 

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I wondered about this as well.  At least in terms of the effect on piloting aircraft.  Was this discovered fairly recently?

[ROMARY]

'Who's minding the store, anyway?'..........

[MorningLover]

Just in - January 18, 2022,

ABC NEWS: Verizon, AT&T delay 5G rollout around some airports after stark warnings from US airlines

A showdown between the nation's major airlines, the FAA and AT&T and Verizon appears to be cooling after both telecom giants agreed at the last minute to pause a portion of their 5G-C rollout on Wednesday.

"At our sole discretion we have voluntarily agreed to temporarily defer turning on a limited number of towers around certain airport runways as we continue to work with the aviation industry and the FAA to provide further information about our 5G deployment," AT&T said in a statement Tuesday.

Verizon followed AT&T saying, "We have voluntarily decided to limit our 5G network around airports. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and our nation's airlines have not been able to fully resolve navigating 5G around airports, despite it being safe and fully operational in more than 40 other countries."

CEOs from American, United, Delta and seven other major carriers warned of "significant" disruptions in the country's aviation system if the 5G rollout continued as planned.

Aviation officials are concerned that the frequency used for 5G may interfere with airplanes' radio altimeters -- devices used by pilots to measure the distance between the aircraft and the ground in order to land.

In the letter, U.S. airline leaders wrote to government officials Monday asking that the wireless carriers not deploy 5G within two miles of runways at certain airports.

"This will allow 5G to be deployed while avoiding harmful impacts on the aviation industry, traveling public, supply chain, vaccine distribution, our workforce and broader economy," the CEOs wrote.

The FAA warned pilots won't be able to use radio altimeters to land at 88 airports closest to Verizon and AT&T's 5G towers. Earlier this month, the FAA and wireless carriers agreed to implement "buffer zones" around 50 airports across the country to try to mitigate the issue.

Airline officials, however, said this is not enough. United Airlines said the current plan will have "devastating" impacts on its operation, impacting an estimated 1.25 million of the carrier's passengers and at least 15,000 flights.

"We won't compromise on safety – full stop," United said in a statement.

Captain Dennis Tajer, an American Airlines 737 pilot and a spokesperson for the Allied Pilots Association, also called the rollout "unsafe."

"We're not going to fly the airplane unless it's safe," Tajer told ABC News..

 5G Cell Tower 

[CatsyCline]

 In Europe and Asia 5 G has been a standard since 2019. In the US , bureaucracy and a slight difference in bands.

Why does 5G only pose a problem for US airplanes?

News AnalysisPÁDRAIG BELTON, Contributor, Light Reading1/17/2022

America, it turns out, is just a bit unique.

In Washington, Boeing and Airbus are asking the US transport secretary to delay mobile operators' 5G deployments, citing possible negative 5G effects on aircraft safety systems.

Verizon and AT&T agreed to delay the launch of their upgraded 5G networks using the 3.7GHz to 3.8GHz frequency bands, after initially telling the Federation Aviation Administration (FAA) they would both ignore the request for a delay.

Doing so would probably have led to courtroom drama. (And US courts generally defer to regulators in areas involving technical questions.)

But in other jurisdictions, and especially in Europe, regulators and the aviation industry have all been perfectly happy for the 5G rollout to jet on ahead.

So what's different? Partly, it's the nature of bureaucracy, and partly it's that 5G uses slightly different bands in Europe than it does in the US.

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/why-does-5g-only-pose-a-problem-for-us-airplanes/d/d-id/774629

[MorningLover]

The 5G signals that Verizon and AT&T want to emit are stronger than those in Europe. 

Why it has made headlines again...

The telecoms giants had been planning to launch the technology across the US on Wednesday, turning on 5,000 towers across the country that will bring Americans' faster internet speeds, including 500 which the airline industry say pose a threat to flight safety.

The rollout has been delayed twice before - Now, AT&T and Verizon, after intense pressure, are agreeing to defer opening some parts of the network near airports.

Despite the delay, some international airlines are already canceling flights to the US out of an abundance of caution.  

This graphic shows how the wireless spectrum used by 5G networks could interfere with altimeters, which measure a plane's altitude and is especially important for low-visibility operations.

The CEOs of the airlines have asked officials that the 5G be implemented everywhere in the country except within the approximate 2 miles of airport runways at some key airports.

Altimeter's are a key tool for pilots landing in low-visibility conditions

The issue doesn't just affect airplanes - they could also have a negative effect on the nation's helicopters, including lifesaving medevac choppers. 

Under U.S. law, all commercial helicopters must have a working altimeter in order to fly. Without them, officials warn, landing in remote areas or on hospital landing pads will be near impossible.

Helicopter Association International (HAI) petitioned the FAA in October, 2021, asking for medevacs to be exempt from the law when 5G rolls out.  On January 13, HAI finally received a response, but was only given partial approval...

Source:  The Launch Of 5G Networks In The US Has Hitched Again, This Time Because Of Helicopters Jan. 16, 2022

Daily Mail:  AT&T and Verizon activate 90% of their 5G networks and spark international travel chaos: Emirates, Air India and All Nippon cancel flights while BA and Cathay Pacific scramble to switch out Boeing 777s over frequency interference fears Jan. 19, 2022

[Lipstickdiva]

I guess I'm not understanding this.  Isn't 5G, 5G.  How can 5G here be stronger than 5G in Europe?  Isn't that like saying 140 pounds here is more than 140 pounds in Europe?

Yes this has been talked about for 2 years so I'm not sure why now it's an issue that the airlines are just addressing.

[hckynutjohn]

I only know what I read and what I have heard from the media concerniung this problem. Retired from AT&T after 33 years of working there.

What makes "common sense" to me! When it comes to faster telecommunications speed, or the deaths and/or injuries of human on airlines due to signal interferences?

AT&T and Verizon tell the Airline Industry to upgrade their systems, and the Airlines say "we need more time". With that I also think more $$$$, and from whom?  Take a guess!

For me the solution is pretty simple because I rarely fly, and rarely even turn on my cell phone, much less use it. But for those that do a lot of both? 

As the real old saying goes: "the squeaky wheel gets the most oil". Be passive and complain, or take the route that is more likely to get their attention, which ever side on which you fall.

hckynut 🏒