Beauty

[Girl Detective]

I've recently tried to put more effort into my daily routine but am confused about a couple issues. My day routine is: cleanse and follow with an alcohol-free toner, AHA lotion, serum, eye cream and moisturizer with SPF. My night routine is: cleanse and follow with an alcohol-free toner, Philosophy Miracle Worker retinoid pads, serum, retinoid eye cream and retinoid moisturizer.

I read that you should use AHA's during the day and retinols at night but I'm not sure if this is true. I also don't know the difference between retinols and retinoids.

My skin seems to really like this regime but I don't want to overdo everything.

Thanks to everyone for your opinions.

[Caitlinh429]

I apologize for the long post, but I hope it helps you understand your products a little bit!

Difference between retinoids and retinols:

Retinoids usually require a prescription, but not always. Retinoids have a higher % of the active ingredient retinoic acid. The higher the percentage, the more likelihood it will require a prescription (think Differin for acne or true Retin-A). The stronger the prescription the more likely you are opt to develop redness and peeling of the skin.

Retinols are always over the counter with a lower percentage of the active ingredient. (Think Neutrogena, Estee Lauder and RoC). These usually do not have the active ingredient retinoic acid but instead have retinol or retinol palmitate ("Vitamin A").

Just so you know, your skin can instantly absorb the nutrients and benefits of retinoic acid. It cannot with retinol. Your skin has to convert retinol into retinaldehyde which is then converted into retinoic acid. This is the same with retinol palmitate (except it adds another conversion as retinol palmitate needs to be converted into retinol and then so on with the same process). In easier terms, retinol is a weaker ingredient as it is unclear of how of the benefits it is actually receiving after doing all the changes.

If you go to a dermatologist chances are they will give you a recommendation to use retinol. It is an end all be all when it comes to your skin. It has been proven in clinical tests to prevent/reverse UVA & UVB damage, reduce wrinkles, increase blood flow in the skin, help acne, tighten pores, increase cell turnover, boost natural collagen and even skin tone.

I LOVE retinol. It has done wonders for my skin. I personally use my retinol in the daytime as I use my acne line at night and that has glycolic in it.

Now when it comes to AHA's and retinol, they really do a lot of the same things. AHA's (like glycolic and lactic) and retinol both naturally exfoliate the skin so using either or in the daytime means that you absolutely must use sunscreen.

When it comes to skin care routines I always recommend the 3 basics: cleanser, serum, moisturizer. You can then add other products based off of your needs: masks, exfoliating cleansers, eye serums and creams, etc. I do recommend using 2 different types of cleansers for AM and PM, aka having 2 different routines so that your skin does not hit a "plateau" (think of when you go to the gym and you do the same thing for months, eventually you won't get results anymore. Your skin acts the same way).

When applying your products: always go lightest to heaviest. So, cleanse first. Then apply the lightest/clearest product. Face serum, then eye serum, then eye cream, then face cream, then spot treatments for night or spf then primer for daytime.

Personally - I'd only use toner at night. Toner is meant to "open up the pores" in a sense, to absorb more nutrients. It's great for when you are sleeping when your skin can really use the ingredients, however it doesn't really work in the day time (it also might clog your pores if you are using foundations and powders).

Personally (again) - I only use my SSC retinol pads for when I am too lazy to wash my face at night. I always take off my makeup with makeup remover wipes, but say I'm too tired to wash my face, I'll use the pads instead for cleansing benefits. You don't have to use them every night, especially if you are already using retinol products.

I would recommend getting some kind of mask to break up your routine a bit (this goes back to the "plateau" your skin can hit). But in all honesty, if a skin care routine is working for you then why change it?

[JeanLouiseFinch]

CaitlinH - I enjoyed reading your response. I'm on my last tube of RetinA and need to make up my mind if I want to continue. Why do you like Retinol better? All of my reading has left me thinking that Retinol, by the time it goes through all the chemical changes to become retinoic acid, is almost non-effective. Yet, there are people who seem to believe it helps them so I wonder if it's just that results happen, they just take longer to achieve when using Retinol instead of RetinA. I read an announcement from the Mad Hippie company today, that they are introducing a new Vitamin A Serum in about 8 weeks. It's going to have an ingredient I had not heard of before, retinyl retinoate. It's supposed to be stronger than retinol but without the irritation or UV sensitivity that RetinA has. They're also working on a sunscreen.

[cassiem]

Actually retinoid is the term for any vitamin A derived ingredient, including retinol and prescription tretinoin (Retin A). I think of it in terms of a broad category name. Retinol is a retinoid that is available over the counter. The following is from cosmeticscop.com:

Retinoids: Large group of over 2,500 chemicals related to vitamin A. Topical, over-the-counter retinoids include retinol, retinyl palmitate, retinaldehyde, and retinyl linoleate, among others. Prescription retinoids include tretinoin (Renova, Retin-A), adapalene (Differin), and tazarotene (Tazorac). Other retinoid chemicals include beta-carotene and various carotenoids found in brightly colored and dark green fruits and vegetables.

This is an excellent article explaining what retinol is and how it works and how it is different from prescription retinoids. http://www.paulaschoice.com/expert-advice/anti-aging/_/retinol-for-anti-aging

[MandySays]

Thanks for all the info cassiem...I'm just getting into anti-aging products and it's all so overwhelming.

[cassiem]

On 8/11/2014 JeanLouiseFinch said:

CaitlinH - I enjoyed reading your response. I'm on my last tube of RetinA and need to make up my mind if I want to continue. Why do you like Retinol better? All of my reading has left me thinking that Retinol, by the time it goes through all the chemical changes to become retinoic acid, is almost non-effective. Yet, there are people who seem to believe it helps them so I wonder if it's just that results happen, they just take longer to achieve when using Retinol instead of RetinA. I read an announcement from the Mad Hippie company today, that they are introducing a new Vitamin A Serum in about 8 weeks. It's going to have an ingredient I had not heard of before, retinyl retinoate. It's supposed to be stronger than retinol but without the irritation or UV sensitivity that RetinA has. They're also working on a sunscreen.

Jeanne, current research is showing that retinols go through the conversion process on the skin much faster and more efficiently than previously believed. A well-formulated retinol is just as effective as a Retin-A, but since retinols are not as strong, it can take longer to see results. The benefit is that people who can't tolerate or afford the prescription retinoids have an equally effective option over the counter.

[cassiem]

On 8/11/2014 MandySays said:

Thanks for all the info cassiem...I'm just getting into anti-aging products and it's all so overwhelming.

You're welcome Mandy. The cosmeticscop website has a wealth of information on ingredients and skincare. I don't always agree with Paula Begoun's product reviews, but her research articles are current and excellent sources of information.

[Harpa]

On 8/11/2014 cassiem said:

On 8/11/2014 JeanLouiseFinch said:

CaitlinH - I enjoyed reading your response. I'm on my last tube of RetinA and need to make up my mind if I want to continue. Why do you like Retinol better? All of my reading has left me thinking that Retinol, by the time it goes through all the chemical changes to become retinoic acid, is almost non-effective. Yet, there are people who seem to believe it helps them so I wonder if it's just that results happen, they just take longer to achieve when using Retinol instead of RetinA. I read an announcement from the Mad Hippie company today, that they are introducing a new Vitamin A Serum in about 8 weeks. It's going to have an ingredient I had not heard of before, retinyl retinoate. It's supposed to be stronger than retinol but without the irritation or UV sensitivity that RetinA has. They're also working on a sunscreen.

Jeanne, current research is showing that retinols go through the conversion process on the skin much faster and more efficiently than previously believed. A well-formulated retinol is just as effective as a Retin-A, but since retinols are not as strong, it can take longer to see results. The benefit is that people who can't tolerate or afford the prescription retinoids have an equally effective option over the counter.

I'm adding to say that there are factors that determine those conversions for each individual -- health & diet, environment, what you use before & after and when....

If you are under a doctor/dermatologist's care for use of RetinA, just continue with their advice. You can always try a retinol/retinoid product to see how it goes. Am I correct in thinking that you do have sensitive skin? It appears that retinyl retinoate's conversion is more gradual, thus more suited for sensitive skin, besides its other characteristics, (one I cannot determine if its a good or a bad thing! I suppose one would not want overproduction of hyaluronan.) ?

[JeanLouiseFinch]

On 8/11/2014 Harpa said:

On 8/11/2014 cassiem said:

On 8/11/2014 JeanLouiseFinch said:

CaitlinH - I enjoyed reading your response. I'm on my last tube of RetinA and need to make up my mind if I want to continue. Why do you like Retinol better? All of my reading has left me thinking that Retinol, by the time it goes through all the chemical changes to become retinoic acid, is almost non-effective. Yet, there are people who seem to believe it helps them so I wonder if it's just that results happen, they just take longer to achieve when using Retinol instead of RetinA. I read an announcement from the Mad Hippie company today, that they are introducing a new Vitamin A Serum in about 8 weeks. It's going to have an ingredient I had not heard of before, retinyl retinoate. It's supposed to be stronger than retinol but without the irritation or UV sensitivity that RetinA has. They're also working on a sunscreen.

Jeanne, current research is showing that retinols go through the conversion process on the skin much faster and more efficiently than previously believed. A well-formulated retinol is just as effective as a Retin-A, but since retinols are not as strong, it can take longer to see results. The benefit is that people who can't tolerate or afford the prescription retinoids have an equally effective option over the counter.

I'm adding to say that there are factors that determine those conversions for each individual -- health & diet, environment, what you use before & after and when....

If you are under a doctor/dermatologist's care for use of RetinA, just continue with their advice. You can always try a retinol/retinoid product to see how it goes. Am I correct in thinking that you do have sensitive skin? It appears that retinyl retinoate's conversion is more gradual, thus more suited for sensitive skin, besides its other characteristics, (one I cannot determine if its a good or a bad thing! I suppose one would not want overproduction of hyaluronan.) ?

Thanks, cassiem. Now that I've achieved excellent results with RetinA, I sometimes wonder if switching to a Retinol, if that will be enough to maintain or if I'll lose ground.

Thanks, Harpa. I agree there are other factors. Sometimes I just don't know what to think, what's working or what isn't, because I do take supplements and try to eat smart. No, my skin is not particularly sensitive. I started on RetinA a couple of years ago, under a derm's care following some facial surgery, to prevent scarring. It did what it was supposed to, the incisions healed beautifully. I ended up staying on it because it worked so well. I only use it a few times a week now, but an trying to decide if I keep things as is, drop the strength, or go to an OTC. I totally agree on overproduction of hyaluronan (hyaluronic acid). It seems to be in everything these days. It's a fine ingredient, but I think when you're getting it in a serum, moisturizer, BB/CC cream, and perhaps in supplements, it's too much.

[LTT1]

I'm following a bunch of you around while still investigating creams!

cassiem... I am definitely stalking you! LOL ... Today I have ordered samples from Paula's Choice. I find myself continually ending up at that site for full information pertaining to products.

There does seem to be a need to combine retinoids with emollients to control the drying and flaking process.