Beauty

[diamond girl 8]

How many times a week to you derma roll?

What serum/cream do you use? And how long to wait until you put your cream/serum on? Is there a waiting period?

Thanks

[BellaCarro]

There are two threads with loads of info and discussion on this. I may have time later tonight to recap but if you don't want to wait check them out. Just use the Search function and type in dermaroller.

[Naturesbeauty]

[lyn in MI]

mom2mc - Cosmetic DermaRollers (0.2mm and 0.3mm) can be used nightly, however it is recommended to start slowly (2 to 3 nights a week) and work up to nightly. Medical DermaRollers (0.5mm and up) have different frequency of use guidelines and the guidelines are based on the needle length.

There are also specific skin care ingredients that should be avoided if using a medical length roller, not only after rolling, but during the wound healing process, which occurs in 3 phases; the Inflammatory & Lag Phase (1 - 5 days), the Fibroplastic Phase (5 - 14 days) and the Maturative Phase (14 - 28 days - 2 years). Dr. Setterfield advises in his book The Concise Guide to Dermal Needling that "Medical needling treatments should not be performed any sooner than every 30 days."

I am starting my second read of his book and I have also sought out a great deal of information online about skin needling, Dr. Setterfield (who studied skin needling for 5 years) and Dr. Des Fernandez (a pioneer of the procedure).

If you are considering adding derma-rolling to your skin care regimen, I feel it is well worth your time to educate yourself on the benefits as well as the cautions you will want to take. I have not yet begun rolling, but I have determined that I want to begin with a 0.2mm needle which will increase the results of my skin care actives. I had originally thought I'd also do a once a month treatment with a 0.5mm, however now that I've read Dr. Setterfield's book and become aware of all of the ingredients I need to avoid if I choose to do medical needling, I am in no hurry to go beyond cosmetic needling.

eta: I wanted to add that there are also recommendations for nutritional supplements to take in combination with medical needling to help support the healing process.

You asked about a "wait time". According to Dr. Setterfield, we have a short window after cosmetic needling (0.2mm/0.3mm roller) to apply actives/serums, because the needling channels close w/in about 10 - 15 minutes.

[MarenSeattle]

On 1/14/2014 lyn in MI said: mom2mc - Cosmetic DermaRollers (0.2mm and 0.3mm) can be used nightly, however it is recommended to start slowly (2 to 3 nights a week) and work up to nightly. Medical DermaRollers (0.5mm and up) have different frequency of use guidelines and the guidelines are based on the needle length.

There are also specific skin care ingredients that should be avoided if using a medical length roller, not only after rolling, but during the wound healing process, which occurs in 3 phases; the Inflammatory & Lag Phase (1 - 5 days), the Fibroplastic Phase (5 - 14 days) and the Maturative Phase (14 - 28 days - 2 years). Dr. Setterfield advises in his book The Concise Guide to Dermal Needling that "Medical needling treatments should not be performed any sooner than every 30 days."

I am starting my second read of his book and I have also sought out a great deal of information online about skin needling, Dr. Setterfield (who studied skin needling for 5 years) and Dr. Des Fernandez (a pioneer of the procedure).

If you are considering adding derma-rolling to your skin care regimen, I feel it is well worth your time to educate yourself on the benefits as well as the cautions you will want to take. I have not yet begun rolling, but I have determined that I want to begin with a 0.2mm needle which will increase the results of my skin care actives. I had originally thought I'd also do a once a month treatment with a 0.5mm, however now that I've read Dr. Setterfield's book and become aware of all of the ingredients I need to avoid if I choose to do medical needling, I am in no hurry to go beyond cosmetic needling.

eta: I wanted to add that there are also recommendations for nutritional supplements to take in combination with medical needling to help support the healing process.

You asked about a "wait time". According to Dr. Setterfield, we have a short window after cosmetic needling (0.2mm/0.3mm roller) to apply actives/serums, because the needling channels close w/in about 10 - 15 minutes.

Lyn, I'm searching the "what not to use" right now (I have 5 windows open right now!) but apparently not finding what you have in order to decide against the 0.5.

But tell me this -- are you referring to stuff that shouldn't be used at ALL with the use of a 0.5, or just that shouldn't be used for a "while" after a treatment? I know you issued the caution about PTR's 40% peel.

I sure wish Dr. Setterfield's book was available in an online edition! While looking up various stuff, it's apparent he's widely studied and has been spreading the message, so one would think that there might be a market for it. Just venting. :-)

[Wackers3]

Lyn,

I spent a few hours yesterday reading Sarah Vaughter's discussion boards and also the owndoc site. I know you have no interest in using larger mm derma rollers (1 or 1.5)nor do I but I just wondered if you have come across the need for keeping skin that has been derma rolled with a 1.5 mm roller, as an example, very well moisturized afterwards. Sarah recommends infadolan strongly. I don't recall seeing anything mentioned here about this for the longer mm rollers but certainly could have missed it too.

Have you come across this as a recommendation for using longer rollers in the book?

I also read a section where Sarah was advising someone on a skincare regime and she mentioned that Vit C remains in the skin for several days (has about 4 days tissue half life she specifically stated) so there isn't a need to use it daily. I guess I knew once it is applied that C is in the skin and doesn't rub off like other products can but I was not aware that it lasted that long. Have you ever read that before? The recommendation she was making was that Vit C really doesn't need to be applied every day ............. she suggested 3 to 4 times a week.

I was just curious as to your thoughts .............. I also thought for the sake of those intending to use 1 or 1.5 mm rollers, they might want to research what they need to apply to the skin afterwards because, at least according to the owndoc website, the aftercare varies greatly from using smaller (.5 mm and under) rollers to the longer ones.

They sell a 2.5 mm which appeals some to me ........... at least at the moment. Can't say I am ready to take the leap because I am not there yet.

wackers

[lyn in MI]

MarenSeattle - first, take a look at the photo below, which is one of Dr. Setterfield's case studies...


© Dr. Lance Setterfield, MD

This individual had treatment for "Lax Skin". She was "55 years old, treated with product for 18 months and a 0.3mm roller for 6 months. (6 months between photographs)

Dr. Setterfield has 12 case studies in his book. He gave one of his patients a total of only FIVE treatments with a 1mm between 2008 and 2013 (for treatment of actinic keratosis, hyperpigmentation & wrinkles). This same patient used a cosmetic roller (0.3mm in length) at home once a week from 2008 and 2013.

Reading his book has convinced me that dermal rolling with anything over a cosmetic length is a serious choice. There is an entire chapter devoted to parameters and protocols and it includes lists of ingredients to avoid. I found his information regarding acids to be very interesting. He believes that the use of any acid that causes exfoliation, (including glycolic, lactic, malic, citric & tataric) will lead to premature aging and we should opt for enzyme peels in place of acids.

Dr. Setterfield also explains that the collagenese enzyme "peaks at around day 14 in the wound healing process to assist with remodeling excess collagen." He advises that "it makes no sense to injure the skin more frequently than once a month." He explains that if patients use a 0.5mm at home more than once a month, they will initially see "early apparent improvement of fine lines, due to edema, thus confirming in their minds that "more is better." However, more is not better.

[Wackers3]

I'm obviously not Maren but a sincere thanks for the photos, Lyn and the info as to how she attained that improvement. On the very left side of my face, I have a small section of that "lax skin" (never knew what to call it) and these photos give me hope. Even though it is a small section on just one side, it is all I ever focus on or see when I look in my magnification mirror.

You may have just convinced me to give a .3 mm a try ............. if you get a chance, did you see my post to you above.

Thanks again for the photos and supplementing info~

wackers

[lyn in MI]

wackers - Dr. Setterfield does not recommend the home use of any roller longer than 0.5mm (used once monthly) and advises we use a 0.2mm or 0.3mm 2 - 7 nights each week. He recommends that once rolling is completed with a cosmetic roller, we apply and massage the active ingredients (peptides or vitamins A, C, E and Beta-carotine) into the skin. He advises to allow a few minutes for the ingredients to absorb before applying a moisturizer. He advises we use stable forms of Vit C, such as MAP. He states the best results are obtained with the use of Vitamin A, however there are more side effects w/ higher doses. He also talks about the importance of nutrition.

He gives aftercare instructions for clinical treatments (0.5mm - 2.0mm). This post treatment plan guideline covers nutrition supplements, topical applied antioxidants and clinical intervention recommendations during all three phases of the wound healing process.

You mentioned that you are considering a 2.5mm length derma roller. May I ask why? Dr. Setterfield did not reference any case studies using such long needles. Out of the case studies he published in his book, he only used a 2.0mm length on two patients with scars. He treated one patient twice, waiting 2 months between the treatments. He gave the other patient three treatments, one month apart.

Dr. Setterfield completed a retrospective clinical study of 44 patients treated with needling. He concluded that "less is best", because the 0.5mm group produced the best results in the shortest period of time, using Visia analysis to measure results.

[lyn in MI]

On 1/14/2014 wackers said:

I'm obviously not Maren but a sincere thanks for the photos, Lyn and the info as to how she attained that improvement. On the very left side of my face, I have a small section of that "lax skin" (never knew what to call it) and these photos give me hope. Even though it is a small section on just one side, it is all I ever focus on or see when I look in my magnification mirror.

You may have just convinced me to give a .3 mm a try ............. if you get a chance, did you see my post to you above.

Thanks again for the photos and supplementing info~

wackers

You're welcome, and yes I saw your post and replied.