@ZoetheCat wrote:
@Isobel Archer wrote:
No Zoe I have not repeatedly asserted that tax money is not "our" money. Quite the opposite.
What I have said - yes repeatedly - is that many of the same people who wnat to spend more and more tax money and who - like you - would not "presume to judge" how recipients spend it, would feel very differently - and would want significantly more accountability if they were giving their personal money to their neighbor next door - or even the panhandler on the street.
The government clearly is not in the business of assuring the money is spent wisely - or even in ways that actually get people out of poverty.
And as to "our" money and your point about your high tax rates, does it bother you that at least one of the folks advocating more and more "free stuff" paid a 13% rate - and that on a much higher than average income?
I promise not to belabor the point anymore, but I have to say that I'm still not understanding the distinction between paying money in taxes and giving it as charity to a neighbor. I know that when I write that big check to the IRS on April 15, I am well aware that it is my money. Do I love to write that check? No, but that is primarily because I don't like a lot of the ways our tax money is spent. The one area that I don't mind spending the money is on food stamps and other safety net programs. I guess I look at it the same way I view giving toys to the Christmas drives for kids in need or the turkeys that I give to the food pantry at Thanksgiving. I don't interview these people to find out if they are really in need or if they are just too cheap to pay for their own Thanksgiving meal. I do it because I think it's the right thing to do, and I believe that the majority of people are down on their luck and could use the help.
As to politicians (whether they be republicans or democrats) who pay less in taxes than the rest of us, of course I don't like it. I have always maintained that I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes. I think it's the price we all pay to live in a civil society. But that also means I shouldn't pay more than my fair share. Politicians (and others) who pay less by virtue of tax loopholes should be ashamed of themselves in my opinion. And don't get me started when it comes to companies who make billions while paying peanuts in taxes.
I absolutely do understand that people do not want to feel that their taxes are going to people who might be undeserving or people who are scamming the system. We all work hard for our money and it's only natural to feel resentful if there are others who are unwilling to pull their own weight and are only too happy to live off of another's hard work. I guess what it comes down to is that I believe that most people who rely on food stamps are going through tought times and just trying to survive. Are there some who could have made better choices and should know better? I'm sure there are. I just don't think they are the majority and I don't think it's right to paint those who are deserving with a broad brush.
Obviously there are a lot of people who agree with you. Just last night on the news I watched a young man talking about how terrible welfare reform was - that people should never be have to worry about being expected to eventually get a job or be removed from the rolls no matter how long they need it. It takes a terrible toll on them.
It's interesting, there was a proposal some time back that it would actually be more cost effective to eliminate all welfare programs and just give everyone a check.
One big problem with that of course are folks' objections that people might not spend the money "appropriately" and thus children would still be starving. So we'd still have to do more.
Interesting that people can see in this proposal that money is not the answer, but in our current system, they want us to spend more - and they - like the young man last night - want no limits or expectations on behavior thus driving the need for more and more spending. Nor can they see that not making help contingent upon accountability creates more not less "need."
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