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Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,415
Registered: ‎11-25-2011

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

[ Edited ]

@QueenDanceALot

Guuuuuuurl, I know about overtraining & little recovery.

I remember I wrote a thread about it back in 2014.

https://community.qvc.com/t5/Wellness/Maffetone-Method/m-p/1466091/highlight/true#M44564

 

I've noticed my sleep being a little wonky over the last several months.

Truth be told, my HR records show I've haven't been doing the volume

of LISS training as I should...I get caught up w/ GroupX excitement &

before I know it, I'm riding at/above AT...and then I can't sleep at night.  

I need to put myself in 'time out' & cycle by myself for awhile. BooHiss.

Man, I just love that 'high' of breathlessness...but for now, it doesn't 

'do my body good.'

 

CICO:  

There's lots of talk about it, even on my PB boards...especially since

everyone's at a different point in transitioning. The McDougall

old-timers will just sit back & watch everyone fuss about this/that!

McDougall's opinion is always scientific based & at the end of the day,

it doesn't matter.  I personally know, if I'm not seeing results or I have 

strayed, I begin to hear a lot of other chatter..and I begin to believe it.  

But.McDougall.makes.sense....eat the right food & calories aren't

the issue anymore. Here's a snippet about carbohydrates turning to fat:

 

The process of turning sugars into fats is known as de novo lipogenesis. Some animals, such as pigs and cows, can efficiently convert the low-energy, inexpensive carbohydrates found in grains and grasses into calorie-dense fats.  This metabolic efficiency makes pigs and cows ideal “food animals.” Bees also perform de novo lipogenesis; converting honey (simple carbohydrates) into wax (fats). However, human beings are very inefficient at this process and as a result de novo lipogenesis does not occur under usual living conditions in people.  When, during extreme conditions, de novo lipogenesis does occur the metabolic cost is about 30% of the calories consumed—a very wasteful process.

 

Under experimental laboratory conditions overfeeding of large amounts of simple sugars to subjects will result in a little bit of de novo lipogenesis. For example, trim and obese women were overfed 50% more total calories than they usually ate in a day, along with an extra 3.5 ounces (135 grams) of refined sugar. From this overfeeding the women produced less than 4 grams (36 calories) of fat daily, which means a person would have to be overfed by this amount of extra calories and sugar every day for nearly 4 months in order to gain one extra pound of body fat. Obviously, even overeating substantial quantities of refined and processed carbohydrates is a relatively unimportant source of body fat. So where does all that belly fat come from? The fat you eat is the fat you wear.

 

ETA:  I recently watched this vid w/ Chef AJ & Dr. Doug Lisle (co-author of 

The Pleasure Trap w/ Dr. Alan Goldhamer...who will be speaking at the PlantFit webinar later next Sunday).  Just reiterating the fact, we don't

need to be worried about measuring food/calories.  I know it's hard,

but it just makes sense.

https://youtu.be/6_x_c-pac9Y

Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!


@sidsmom wrote:

@QueenDanceALot

Guuuuuuurl, I know about overtraining & little recovery.

I remember I wrote a thread about it back in 2014.

https://community.qvc.com/t5/Wellness/Maffetone-Method/m-p/1466091/highlight/true#M44564

 

I've noticed my sleep being a little wonky over the last several months.

Truth be told, my HR records show I've haven't been doing the volume

of LISS training as I should...I get caught up w/ GroupX excitement &

before I know it, I'm riding at/above AT...and then I can't sleep at night.  

I need to put myself in 'time out' & cycle by myself for awhile. BooHiss.

Man, I just love that 'high' of breathlessness...but for now, it doesn't 

'do my body good.'

 

CICO:  

There's lots of talk about it, even on my PB boards...especially since

everyone's at a different point in transitioning. The McDougall

old-timers will just sit back & watch everyone fuss about this/that!

McDougall's opinion is always scientific based & at the end of the day,

it doesn't matter.  I personally know, if I'm not seeing results or I have 

strayed, I begin to hear a lot of other chatter..and I begin to believe it.  

But.McDougall.makes.sense....eat the right food & calories aren't

the issue anymore. Here's a snippet about carbohydrates turning to fat:

 

The process of turning sugars into fats is known as de novo lipogenesis. Some animals, such as pigs and cows, can efficiently convert the low-energy, inexpensive carbohydrates found in grains and grasses into calorie-dense fats.  This metabolic efficiency makes pigs and cows ideal “food animals.” Bees also perform de novo lipogenesis; converting honey (simple carbohydrates) into wax (fats). However, human beings are very inefficient at this process and as a result de novo lipogenesis does not occur under usual living conditions in people.  When, during extreme conditions, de novo lipogenesis does occur the metabolic cost is about 30% of the calories consumed—a very wasteful process.

 

Under experimental laboratory conditions overfeeding of large amounts of simple sugars to subjects will result in a little bit of de novo lipogenesis. For example, trim and obese women were overfed 50% more total calories than they usually ate in a day, along with an extra 3.5 ounces (135 grams) of refined sugar. From this overfeeding the women produced less than 4 grams (36 calories) of fat daily, which means a person would have to be overfed by this amount of extra calories and sugar every day for nearly 4 months in order to gain one extra pound of body fat. Obviously, even overeating substantial quantities of refined and processed carbohydrates is a relatively unimportant source of body fat. So where does all that belly fat come from? The fat you eat is the fat you wear.

 

ETA:  I recently watched this vid w/ Chef AJ & Dr. Doug Lisle (co-author of 

The Pleasure Trap w/ Dr. Alan Goldhamer...who will be speaking at the PlantFit webinar later next Sunday).  Just reiterating the fact, we don't

need to be worried about measuring food/calories.  I know it's hard,

but it just makes sense.

https://youtu.be/6_x_c-pac9Y


@sidsmom

 

Yeah, the thread back in 2014.  I can totally relate.  I now understand the importance of low intensity, aerobic endurance work under VT1.  I love to do my weight work in a cycle where I might meet"Mr. Pukey" as we used to call him at my old gym.  Badge of honor and all that.  Now I incorporate lower intensity work, and work in different disciplines.  Dance saved my life a few years back.  Long story, but it's been a God send.

 

Okay, the calorie thing.  I kind of get it and kind of don't.  Even Chef AJ and Dr. Lisle (great video, Thanks!!) talked calories.  I totally get the "volume" of food thing.and how we can eat a much larger volume of WFPB starchy and non-starchies than we can of fat.  I am very cognizant now of eating VERY LITTLE nuts and seeds.  I've never been one to measure my food or count calories (boring, boring, and did I say BORING?  I kind of developed a sense of how I should feel in relationship to eating and that's mostly worked as far as keeping me at a healthy weight, or as an old friend calls it, my "fighting weight".  The only thing I guess I started to "measure" was animal protein, you know, the "recommended" 'palm size' at a meal.  Well, now that the animal protein is gone, I am not measuring anything.  Only measuring how I feel and how my body responds.  (Have a slipped up a few times so far?  Yes, I think I mentioned that - but I get right back on the horse, and now I have a specific plan to go 30 days with NO SLIP UPS)- if I have a plan, I know I can do it)

 

I was kind of confused (again!) when I read more of Dr. McDougall's calorie talk, which you posted much of.  I got to a part where he said that starches carry 1 calorie per gram which contradicted everything else I've ever read.  Carbohydrates- 4 calorie per gram.  But then "protein" weighs in at 4 calories per gram, and "fats" at 9 calories per gram.  So how do you measure carbs/protein/fat in calories per gram for say, black beans? They are a combination of all three.  Mostly protein and carbohydrates.  Or beef?  Mostly fat and protein.  So when I thought about it (until my head was spinning) I wondered how accurate any "calorie per gram" count we can measure in our daily meals.  (I won't be doing that, TYVM, lol - as I said, I don't count calories or grams of anything).  I am willing to give Dr. McD a good chance for the rest of this month - I am hyperventilating less and less at the amount (perceived!!! haha) of starch I'm consuming.  Corn AND potatoes IN THE SAME MEAL?  RICE AND BEANS several times a week?  Eat them until I"m SATISFIED?

 

Well, the first couple weeks my GI tract (which has been uber sensitve the last few months) was so messed up that I didn't know if I could continue.  THEN, seemingly miraculously (2 weeks ago) it just calmed down and is behaving like a normal gut (who, ME?).  This is very good......  Then, when I get out of bed in the morning, my hips don't take 15 minutes to work through the ache.  Training changes?  Food changes?  Both?  Not sure.  But I'm not complaining.

 

Anywho, back to the dreaded calorie thing for a moment.  I have a little bone to pick with the Dr. McD statement that "the fat you eat is the fat you wear".  Say I don't meet my caloric needs (and we do have those, there's no controversy about that) with starches and I've eaten so and so many calories in fats.  My body is going to use those fats for energy, too.  I know my preferred energy is glucose from carbohydrate, but it will use fats, both consumed and stored.  So, if if I need those calories (hit the wall, anyone?) I will use the fat as energy and won't be "wearing it". 

 

This is a separate thought Monkey from the other issue with fats (particularly of animal origin) which have other negative consequences, which I am learning more about every week (every day?).

 

Oh, and ONE MORE THING before I have to go do some work.  My energy level has really picked up.  Again, diet change?  Workout changes?  I am really starting to suspect the eating thing.  

 

Okay, I need to go eat a Jersey peach now (a bag of them from Trader Joe's for $3.79!) and then get to work.

 

I probably didn't hit on some other things I was thinking about, but hey, I'll be back.

 

Hope you had a FABU Labor Day Weekend!

Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention Chef AJ's skin.  It's gorgeous!

 

So much for the dried out look you get from eating 80-10-10.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

Oh, and one.more.thing (famous last words haha) before I go do something useful).

 

The reflux thing appears to have left  the room.  It has only returned, very suspiciously, after I've cheated with animal protein and fat (couple times!).

 

Very interesting.  And I'm thankful for it!

Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,415
Registered: ‎11-25-2011

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

@QueenDanceALot

1 calorie per gram discussion....I tried searching that no his site & nothing pulled up. Could you guide me to that discussion...I really want to see what he said about that.   It's always been 4-4-9 (C/P/F) in terms of calories. I really want to find the answer for you....hate to see Kitty confused. 🐱

Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

[ Edited ]

@sidsmom

 

The 1 calorie per gram statement appears 3 paragraphs above the de novo lipogenesis discussion.  Hopefully the Board Gods will allow the link!

 

Oh, and he also says that cheese carries 4 calories per gram, which I found odd as well.  First because it's primarly fat, and even within that criteria, different types have different percentages of fat.

 

*****Edited to remove link that has an option to shop on another retail site.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

[ Edited ]

@sidsmom

 

Well, poop, the link says the page doesn't exist!

 

Let me try again!

 

Different link, a few paragraphs in.

 

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/dec/eatmorestarch.htm

 

Yay, O.K., under Starches Satisfy our Appetite

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

[ Edited ]

@sidsmom

 

Just finished watching Dr. Renae Thomas on the Plant Fit Summit.

 

She was terrific, a wealth of knowledge and information.  I love that she had Dr. Greger's book prominently displayed in her bookcase, too.

 

And another WFPB chick with beautiful skin!  

 

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 14,488
Registered: ‎04-18-2013

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!

@sidsmom

 

Check out David "DC" Cortdz on the summit, if you don't already know him.

 

What a sweetie and physically stunning!

 

"No meat, no problem!"

 

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 18,415
Registered: ‎11-25-2011

Re: Kitty Pirouettes into Plants!


@QueenDanceALot wrote:

@sidsmom

 

Just finished watching Dr. Renae Thomas on the Plant Fit Summit.

 

She was terrific, a wealth of knowledge and information.  I love that she had Dr. Greger's book prominently displayed in her bookcase, too.

 

And another WFPB chick with beautiful skin!  


@QueenDanceALot

Thanks for the head's up....I'll scoot over there after I finish this post.

 

The calories per gram for cheese/meat/oil/starches quote in his 2012 newsletter & 'Starch Solution' caused confusion..and produced many threads/posts questioning it.   I went to the McDougall FB page..20,000 members strong(!)...and immediately found an answer within his website forum. Since we can't post links, I'll cut/paste the answers...hope this helps.  It is confusing, but I get the general 'gist' of what he's saying...the entire food & not the individual nutrient.  It's Calorie Density, but I learned it a little differently.  I personally don't feel 100% comfortable sharing info when I just have a 'gist'....I'm going to let this soak in for a bit & might come back w/ a better example where I can have it solid...cuz that's how I do. Smiley Tongue

 

Fat you eat is the fat you wear:  I do know if you're at/close to normal weight, overt fats are allowed back into the diet....but only 15%ish of total calories...even at normal weight.  I believe Dr. Mc is liberal w/ that saying since there are so many overweight/obese people...really doesn't make sense to tell someone who is 30-40-50+% body fat to 'lose fat you must eat more fat'...if anything, the arterial system is probably pretty sluggish & adding more slug could get you to the ER pretty quickly. But that's a conversation for another audience...not you!

 

Also...I'm so happy you're feeling better w/ this eating protocol!  You really embraced it for all it's worth & it works.  To make big changes, you have to make big changes. I could talk all day about this...I'm off to watch the summit folks.  Thanks, dear! 🌼💛🌼

 

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