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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 6,627
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary


@Porcelain wrote:

I wonder. Does this apply to other communicable diseases as well? If someone with a cold or flu coughs on my phone and then I use my phone, am I unlikely to catch a cold or flu just from handling my phone without cleaning it?

 

If this is just a new principle that applies to avoiding all diseases, that surfaces are no longer suspect, I'm open to it. How far does it go? Does it mean we could all go around sharing lipsticks and mascaras? Not that I would want to! But it does have implications for shopping inside Sephora, for instance.


@Porcelain 

Well I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv, but I'd say that it has to do with COVID being a respiratory virus.  You know, those little droplets in the air.  Some other viruses or bacteria that cause illnesses DO spread through touching surfaces, I think.  Seriously, that's a great question, and I'd like to hear an infectious disease doctor answer it.

"Breathe in, breathe out, move on." Jimmy Buffett
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Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary

[ Edited ]

 


@mimomof4 wrote:

Further proof for everyone who is still afraid of surfaces - You don't need to be afraid of catching COVID from surfaces.  This is just the latest in studies since last summer in support.Has the Era of Overzealous Cleaning Finally Come to an End?

 

 

When the coronavirus began to spread in the United States last spring, many experts warned of the danger posed by surfaces. Researchers reported that the virus could survive for days on plastic or stainless steel, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advised that if someone touched one of these contaminated surfaces — and then touched their eyes, nose or mouth — they could become infected.

 

Americans responded in kind, wiping down groceries, quarantining mail and clearing drugstore shelves of Clorox wipes. Facebook closed two of its offices for a “deep cleaning.” New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority began disinfecting subway cars every night.

 

 

But the era of “hygiene theater” may have come to an unofficial end this week, when the CDC updated its surface cleaning guidelines and noted that the risk of contracting the virus from touching a contaminated surface was less than 1 in 10,000.

 

 

People can be affected with the virus that causes COVID-19 through contact with contaminated surfaces and objects,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC, said at a White House briefing on Monday.

 

“However, evidence has demonstrated that the risk by this route of infection of transmission is actually low.”

The admission is long overdue, scientists say.

“Finally,” said Linsey Marr, an expert on airborne viruses at Virginia Tech. “We’ve known this for a long time and yet people are still focusing so much on surface cleaning.” She added, “There’s really no evidence that anyone has ever gotten COVID-19 by touching a contaminated surface.”

 

During the early days of the pandemic, many experts believed that the virus spread primarily through large respiratory droplets. These droplets are too heavy to travel long distances through the air but can fall onto objects and surfaces.

 

In this context, a focus on scrubbing down every surface seemed to make sense. “Surface cleaning is more familiar,” Marr said. “We know how to do it. You can see people doing it, you see the clean surface. And so I think it makes people feel safer.”

 

But over the last year, it has become increasingly clear that the virus spreads primarily through the air — in both large and small droplets, which can remain aloft longer — and that scouring door handles and subway seats does little to keep people safe.

 

“The scientific basis for all this concern about surfaces is very slim — slim to none,” said Emanuel Goldman, a microbiologist at Rutgers University, who wrote last summer that the risk of surface transmission had been overblown. “This is a virus you get by breathing. It’s not a virus you get by touching.”

 

The CDC has previously acknowledged that surfaces are not the primary way that the virus spreads. But the agency’s statements this week went further.

 

“The most important part of this update is that they’re clearly communicating to the public the correct, low risk from surfaces, which is not a message that has been clearly communicated for the past year,” said Joseph Allen, a building safety expert at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

 

Catching the virus from surfaces remains theoretically possible, he noted. But it requires many things to go wrong: a lot of fresh, infectious viral particles to be deposited on a surface, and then for a relatively large quantity of them to be quickly transferred to someone’s hand and then to their face.

 

“Presence on a surface does not equal risk,” Allen said.

In most cases, cleaning with simple soap and water — in addition to hand-washing and mask-wearing — is enough to keep the odds of surface transmission low, the CDC’s updated cleaning guidelines say.

 

In most everyday scenarios and environments, people do not need to use chemical disinfectants, the agency notes. “What this does very usefully, I think, is tell us what we don’t need to do,” said Donald Milton, an aerosol scientist at the University of Maryland.

 

“Doing a lot of spraying and misting of chemicals isn’t helpful.” Still, the guidelines do suggest that if someone who has COVID-19 has been in a particular space within the last day, the area should be both cleaned and disinfected.

 

“Disinfection is only recommended in indoor settings — schools and homes — where there has been a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19 within the last 24 hours,” Walensky said during the White House briefing.

 

“Also, in most cases, fogging, fumigation and wide-area or electrostatic spraying is not recommended as a primary method of disinfection and has several safety risks to consider.”

 

 

And the new cleaning guidelines do not apply to health care facilities, which may require more intensive cleaning and disinfection.

Saskia Popescu, an infectious disease epidemiologist at George Mason University, said that she was happy to see the new guidance, which “reflects our evolving data on transmission throughout the pandemic.”

 

But she noted that it remained important to continue doing some regular cleaning — and maintaining good hand-washing practices — to reduce the risk of contracting not just the coronavirus but any other pathogens that might be lingering on a particular surface.

 

Allen said that the school and business officials he has spoken with this week expressed relief over the updated guidelines, which will allow them to pull back on some of their intensive cleaning regimens. “This frees up a lot of organizations to spend that money better,” he said.

 

Schools, businesses and other institutions that want to keep people safe should shift their attention from surfaces to air quality, he said, and invest in improved ventilation and filtration.

 

“This should be the end of deep cleaning,” Allen said, noting that the misplaced focus on surfaces has had real costs. “It has led to closed playgrounds, it has led to taking nets off basketball courts, it has led to quarantining books in the library.

 

It has led to entire missed school days for deep cleaning. It has led to not being able to share a pencil. So that’s all that hygiene theater, and it’s a direct result of not properly classifying surface transmission as low risk.”

 

This article originally appeared in The New York Times


 


(thread title)

 

@mimomof4 

 

Guess I missed the announcement that it was necessary. Well I'll be danged!

 

 

hckynut(john)

hckynut(john)
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Posts: 8,611
Registered: ‎06-25-2012

Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary

As time goes on, I'm afraid we will find out a lot more fallacies.

"Pure Michigan"
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Posts: 1,201
Registered: ‎10-16-2020

Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary

Most jars and cans are quite filthy.  It was never a bother to me or to my husband to clean them first before bringing into our house.  Bacteria or virus laden things brought into our house....no way.  Also, I make sure that my refrigerator is clean.  All the shelves and drawers with soap and water.

 

Packages that were handled by my carrier who refuses to wear a mask from day 1, yes, I wipe it down (while wearing gloves) before I bring it in. 

 

I don't complain about her or others for their choices but you can be sure I watch out for my own. 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 10,168
Registered: ‎03-14-2010

Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary

I have always routinely wiped down my kitchen and bathroom surfaces every day....the Covid virus is not the only thing that the surfaces can be harboring. I will keep using my Clorox wipes.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 10,168
Registered: ‎03-14-2010

Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary

My SIL who is a dr said hand sanitizer kills the germs on your hands for about 20 minutes....so best to get to a sink and wash your hands with soap and water asap.
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Posts: 33,580
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Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary


@shoesnbags wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

I wonder. Does this apply to other communicable diseases as well? If someone with a cold or flu coughs on my phone and then I use my phone, am I unlikely to catch a cold or flu just from handling my phone without cleaning it?

 

If this is just a new principle that applies to avoiding all diseases, that surfaces are no longer suspect, I'm open to it. How far does it go? Does it mean we could all go around sharing lipsticks and mascaras? Not that I would want to! But it does have implications for shopping inside Sephora, for instance.


@Porcelain 

Well I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv, but I'd say that it has to do with COVID being a respiratory virus.  You know, those little droplets in the air.  Some other viruses or bacteria that cause illnesses DO spread through touching surfaces, I think.  Seriously, that's a great question, and I'd like to hear an infectious disease doctor answer it.


@shoesnbags a couple of years ago, I ended up with a highly contagious infection in both of my eyes. Both of my eyes were beet red and itched like crazy but also hurt.  I seem to think he told me it was a common cold virus in my eyes.  I'm sure I'm misstating exactly how he put it.  LOL

 

My eye doctor told me a couple of ways it could spread was if I used a towel at home to wipe my face/eyes and then my DH used the same towel to wipe his face/eyes.  He also said if I touched my eyes, then touched something like a countertop, utensil, etc. and someone else touched that same countertop and then touched their eyes, they could end up with it.  

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 5,637
Registered: ‎10-01-2010

Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary

I see nothing wrong with being extra cautious...can't hurt is my motto.  Live and let live.  If I want to wipe off cans brought into the house,etc I'll do so. If you find it laughable, glad I brought you some humor. Things aren't that funny these days.

Trees are the lungs of the Earth
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Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary


@Bri369 wrote:

I didn't go too crazy with the deep cleaning.  I wasn't airing out mail and packages for days when all this started. 

 

What I did do and what I'm continuing to do is wipe down things I'm putting in my refrigerator and my pantry.  When you think about how many people have potentially touched that, it just  makes sense to me to wipe that all down. 

 

I keep a clean household anyway.  We don't wear our shoes in the house.  I change my clothes when I come home before sitting on the couch or in bed.  We are big hand washers. 

 

Everyone needs to do what they feel comfortable doing...


@Bri369 I agree with you except mail has gotten opened the day after it is delivered, and hands are sanitized after getting it on day one.

 

I will still wipe down all cartons being stored immediately after coming from the grocery store too.  And veggies on in the fridge in a bag.  

 

I am not afraid of or ashamed of being to careful.  And soap and water?  You can't wash many surfaces with soap and water, so the wipes are still popoular with Ms. Monk here! 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,491
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Deep Cleaning of Surfaces Unnecessary

I always cleaned surfaces and washed my hands after getting packages or coming in from shopping.  Covid just added more awareness for me and having to ration my wipes early on.

 

I travel a lot and germs can stay on surfaces for a long time, so I always took my Clorox wipes on the plane and wiped down my whole area and the hotel room.  

 

Travel always made me sick, so I had to learn to stop touching my face and do a little extra cleaning so that every business trip didn't turn into a sinus infection.

 

It has served me well.  I haven't had a cold or respiratory thing since August 2014.

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