Wellness

[NoelSeven]

On 9/27/2014 Jersey Born said:

There are hundreds of influenza strains. The vaccine is just a guess, based upon what is seen in the Southern Hemisphere, and then there is the problem of antigenic shift of the influenza viruses that are circulating.

All I can say is that if you take an annual flu shot, NoelSeven, I hope it works for you each and every time, and that it never causes you any harm. That is what I wish for everyone.

You are making an informed medical decision if you consider the risks as well as the benefits of any medical product or procedure you decide to take or undergo. I think each of us deserves the right to make such decisions for ourselves, by ourselves, without any coercion or pressure from any source. All the best and only the best to you.

The series of yearly flu shots I have taken over the years have never caused me any harm.

The risk for me is what could happen if I get the flu.

Each of us does deserve to make the decision for ourselves, just as my decision would be never to have to come in contact with a nurse who didn't know or care enough to get protection for herself and thus for her patients.

I agree with Pitdakota that your misinformation and scare tactics are inappropriate on a board where not everyone knows enough basic science or health information to understand your misleading comments.

[NoelSeven]

On 9/27/2014 spindlegirl said:

On 9/27/2014 kcladyz said:

I get the flu shot ever year and still always get the flu in a bad bad way

Your doctor confirmed you have the actual flu every single year? Never heard of that before.

Many people think they have the flu when it's really a bad cold.

It's also possible to have been infected with the flu before the vaccine has time to kick in.

[NC Bandwagon]

Hello again, ladies. Nice to see that this thread is still here. Quite a interesting discussion.

@ChynnaBlue, you are right. Vaccines are very good. They're good for children, too, since they keep them from getting diseases. I have an idea. If someone doesn't know something, perhaps people could try to educate them on the subject, while still respecting how they feel about certain things. Like, if someone thinks vaccines aren't good and are ignorant on the subject, instead of saying that they live in the dark ages and are science deniers (not saying that you said those things, but I've seen it posted on threads before), simply tell them the good things vaccines do and explain how they work. I've found that more times than not, people respond better when things are explained patiently and kindly.

As for the flu shot, eh....I hear all sorts of things about it that I don't know what's true and what isn't. I've heard things like it gives you the flu, it doesn't give you the flu, it makes you sick, it doesn't make you sick, it'll keep you from getting the flu, it won't keep you from getting the flu, etc. Sometimes it's hard to tell what's real and what isn't.

Anyway, very good discussion ladies...and men who are posting here as well.

[spindlegirl]

On 9/27/2014 NoelSeven said:

On 9/27/2014 spindlegirl said:

On 9/27/2014 kcladyz said:

I get the flu shot ever year and still always get the flu in a bad bad way

Your doctor confirmed you have the actual flu every single year? Never heard of that before.

Many people think they have the flu when it's really a bad cold.

It's also possible to have been infected with the flu before the vaccine has time to kick in.

That's what I was thinking, why I wondered if her doc verified it was actual flu every year.. Every year I hear people call everything from indigestion to food poisoning to bad colds "the flu." It's a winter time catch-all.

[NoelSeven]

On 9/27/2014 NC Bandwagon said:

Hello again, ladies. Nice to see that this thread is still here. Quite a interesting discussion.

@ChynnaBlue, you are right. Vaccines are very good. They're good for children, too, since they keep them from getting diseases. I have an idea. If someone doesn't know something, perhaps people could try to educate them on the subject, while still respecting how they feel about certain things. Like, if someone thinks vaccines aren't good and are ignorant on the subject, instead of saying that they live in the dark ages and are science deniers (not saying that you said those things, but I've seen it posted on threads before), simply tell them the good things vaccines do and explain how they work. I've found that more times than not, people respond better when things are explained patiently and kindly.

As for the flu shot, eh....I hear all sorts of things about it that I don't know what's true and what isn't. I've heard things like it gives you the flu, it doesn't give you the flu, it makes you sick, it doesn't make you sick, it'll keep you from getting the flu, it won't keep you from getting the flu, etc. Sometimes it's hard to tell what's real and what isn't.

Anyway, very good discussion ladies...and men who are posting here as well.

Re: "I've heard things like it gives you the flu, it doesn't give you the flu"

NC, it takes live flu virus to give you the flu. The vaccine does not contain live virus, therefore it cannot give you the flu.

[NoelSeven]

On 9/27/2014 spindlegirl said:

On 9/27/2014 NoelSeven said:

On 9/27/2014 spindlegirl said:

On 9/27/2014 kcladyz said:

I get the flu shot ever year and still always get the flu in a bad bad way

Your doctor confirmed you have the actual flu every single year? Never heard of that before.

Many people think they have the flu when it's really a bad cold.

It's also possible to have been infected with the flu before the vaccine has time to kick in.

That's what I was thinking, why I wondered if her doc verified it was actual flu every year.. Every year I hear people call everything from indigestion to food poisoning to bad colds "the flu." It's a winter time catch-all.

My assumption is it was not corroborated by her doctor. That can be done by a test.

You are certainly correct about a lot of people calling other causes for being sick "the flu." I have had really bad colds which required a trip to the ER but were not the flu.

[NoelSeven]

For NC -

The following information is from WebMD, an excellent and credible source. It's their commentary on the myths about flu.

Flu Myth #3: The flu vaccine can give you the flu.

This is the flu myth most likely to drive experts bonkers. “There is simply no way that the flu vaccine can give you the flu,” says Hay. “It’s impossible.”

Why? For one, injected flu vaccines only contain dead virus, and a dead virus is, well, dead: it can’t infect you. There is one type of live virus flu vaccine, the nasal vaccine, FluMist. But in this case, the virus is specially engineered to remove the parts of the virus that make people sick.

Despite the scientific impossibility of getting the flu from the flu vaccines, this widespread flu myth won’t die. Experts suspect two reasons for its persistence. One, people mistake the side effects of the vaccine for flu. While side effects to the vaccine these days tend to be a sore arm, in the past, side effects often felt like mild symptoms of the flu. Two, flu season coincides with a time of year when bugs causing colds and other respiratory illnesses are in the air. Many people get the vaccine and then, within a few days, get sick with an unrelated cold virus. However, they blame the innocent flu vaccine, rather than their co-worker with a runny nose and cough.

More about the flu on their site here:

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/top-13-flu-myths

[NoelSeven]

Goodnight, ladies.

I wish you good health.

[pitdakota]

On 9/27/2014 Jersey Born said:

This is a direct quote from that link. The language is very clear. I wish you all the best.

"RESULTS: Vaccine failures were observed to show lower antibody response to TIV compared with other vaccine recipients. We did not find any evidence that vaccination reduced the severity or duration of clinical symptoms of reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction-confirmed vaccine-matched influenza B infections. Vaccination was not observed to alter viral load or shedding duration.

CONCLUSIONS: TIV was not observed to ameliorate clinical symptoms or viral shedding among vaccine failures compared with infected placebo recipients. Lower antibody response might have explained vaccine failure and also lack of effect in reducing clinical symptoms and viral shedding upon infection. Our results are based on a randomized controlled trial of split virus inactivated vaccine and may not be applicable to other vaccine types. Further studies in vaccine failure among children will be important in future vaccine development."

If you feel a direct quote from the abstract is in any way a misrepresentation, then there is not much more I can add to this conversation, and I won't waste my time any longer. I added bold to the text to support my prior comment.

Sigh, the entire sample in this study were vaccine failures. The sample also consisted of children 6-17 years of age that went on to develop a strain of flu after receiving a TIV for influenza type B or a placebo.

Please note the first sentence in the results section (that you did not bold) "Vaccine failures were observed to show lower antibody response to TIV compared with other vaccine recipients".

So in vaccine failures (which we know occur) the administration of a TIV had no impact on viral shedding.

Then please note again in the conclusion: "Our results are based on a randomized controlled trial of split virus inactivated vaccine and may not be applicable to other vaccine types".

Note, this only pertains to children. One cannot generalize the results to all ages by any means. It only pertains to immunization with TIV for influenza type B in children ages 6-17.

So what this study showed was that in children that received a TIV for type B influenza and experienced a vaccine failure there was no decrease in clinical symptoms or viral shedding. Researchers are unsure as to why although they propose that lower antibody response may explain the vaccine failure & they recommend further studies of vaccination in children to better understand and develop better protocols for vaccination in children.

Further questions would be what impact does lower immune response have on vaccine failure? They didn't exclude children in this study that had situations with lower immune response. That may have impacted the study tremendously. So, they need future research.

Once the associated of lowered immune response & vaccine failure is better understood by research, they will also want to research other types of vaccines given for influenza (we do have more than one type) and different strains of influenza.

But to make a general statement this study "indicates children who received a flu shot did not have a less severe case of influenza when the vaccine failed to protect them from contracting influenza." just isn't accurate. It only pertains to children that received a TIV for influenza type B. And the sample in the study did not exclude children that had lower immune response due to certain diagnoses.

It does not mean that children that received another type of flu vaccination for any other strains of flu didn't have a less severe case of influenza. And in the world of research, that is a big difference.

Making broad interpretations of research studies such as that is why people get frustrated with research and say well....one study shows coffee is bad for you, another study shows it is good for you. Problem is, that is not what the study demonstrated in either case, but people don't really understand that.

[pitdakota]

On 9/27/2014 NoelSeven said:

For NC -

The following information is from WebMD, an excellent and credible source. It's their commentary on the myths about flu.

Flu Myth #3: The flu vaccine can give you the flu.

This is the flu myth most likely to drive experts bonkers. “There is simply no way that the flu vaccine can give you the flu,” says Hay. “It’s impossible.”

Why? For one, injected flu vaccines only contain dead virus, and a dead virus is, well, dead: it can’t infect you. There is one type of live virus flu vaccine, the nasal vaccine, FluMist. But in this case, the virus is specially engineered to remove the parts of the virus that make people sick.

Despite the scientific impossibility of getting the flu from the flu vaccines, this widespread flu myth won’t die. Experts suspect two reasons for its persistence. One, people mistake the side effects of the vaccine for flu. While side effects to the vaccine these days tend to be a sore arm, in the past, side effects often felt like mild symptoms of the flu. Two, flu season coincides with a time of year when bugs causing colds and other respiratory illnesses are in the air. Many people get the vaccine and then, within a few days, get sick with an unrelated cold virus. However, they blame the innocent flu vaccine, rather than their co-worker with a runny nose and cough.

More about the flu on their site here:

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/top-13-flu-myths

Another thing that can happen is that it takes a full 2 weeks for the immunization to become completely effective. The response starts immediately, but it takes 2 weeks for full effectiveness. Typically the incubation period for influenza is anywhere from 1-4 days.

Therefore, someone could have been exposed to the flu 2 days before the flu shot. 2 days later when the flu shot is not fully effective, person gets sick and blames the flu shot.

Goodnight ladies!!