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Respected Contributor
Posts: 3,970
Registered: ‎03-16-2010

Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

On 9/27/2014 NoelSeven said:
On 9/27/2014 pitdakota said:
On 9/27/2014 NoelSeven said:

Right, no one should be forced. However, we do require certain professions to do drug testing for their jobs, and if they don't agree, they're not allowed to get or keep those jobs.

Same for nurses. If they don't think the medical profession knows what they're talking about, they shouldn't be in that profession. And if they refuse to get flu shots, they shouldn't be anywhere near patients or anything patients get near, like food prep.

And not only that, nurses must have up to date vaccinations for measles, mumps, rubella; routine screening for TB (and typical follow up protocol if they test positive); hepatitis B, etc.

This is not something new for nurses or nursing students for that matter.

Right. And IMO, and that of many others is, if they don't want to take the vaccines or flu shots, they shouldn't be in the medical profession.

Absolutely. In most health care institutions, if there is a documented reason for the nurse not to receive the vaccination, they are exempt.


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Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

On 9/27/2014 Jersey Born said:
On 9/27/2014 pitdakota said:
On 9/27/2014 Jersey Born said:

Here's a study that indicates children who received a flu shot did not have a less severe case of influenza when the vaccine failed to protect them from contracting influenza. This study conflicts with what we are being told. It may be only one study, but it would be interesting if more studies were done to determine if this is true for adults as well, and to confirm these findings in children in other countries. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24061274

There is no way that is what that study demonstrated. You are grossly exaggerating the results of that study.

Could you please identify the independent and dependent variable in this study please? And I am confused about generalizing results to the population as a whole. Could you please describe the principles applied in regard to generalizing results in research?

Just read the abstract. If you want to read the full article, pay for it and read it. I provided a link. You will have to reach your own independent conclusion as to what the article represents.

No, I don't have to pay for it. I have access to it via the University library database from which I am employed.

You cited it. I can tell you the independent/dependent variables, sample, and the impact of generalizing the results just reading the abstract.

I would have to look up the full text article to determine the statistical analysis, sample size etc. But that is not what I asked.

And so can you if you understand research. There is enough in the abstract to determine those things. If you cite research, one should be able to understand the study and what it means!


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Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

On 9/27/2014 Jersey Born said:

Pitdakota, what is new is that flu shots don't have the efficacy of the other vaccines, and they are the only vaccine that come with an annual requirement. None of the other vaccines required for medical staff are required annually.

Flu vaccines are based on what strain is predicted for the coming flu season. That can change from one year to the next.

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Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,451
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

There are hundreds of influenza strains. The vaccine is just a guess, based upon what is seen in the Southern Hemisphere, and then there is the problem of antigenic shift of the influenza viruses that are circulating.

All I can say is that if you take an annual flu shot, NoelSeven, I hope it works for you each and every time, and that it never causes you any harm. That is what I wish for everyone.

You are making an informed medical decision if you consider the risks as well as the benefits of any medical product or procedure you decide to take or undergo. I think each of us deserves the right to make such decisions for ourselves, by ourselves, without any coercion or pressure from any source. All the best and only the best to you.

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Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

The problem I have Jersey Born is that you try to push off your inaccurate interpretations on others for them to make a decision.

More power to you if you make the choice not to take the flu shot. But when you come on here misrepresenting scientific studies (as you do frequently) to influence others in their decision, that crosses the line.

It is quite clear you could not identify the dependent or independent variables in a research study that you posted the link to the abstract. That is research 101 content. If you cite research to support a claim here, you should at least be able to discuss the basic mechanics of that study.


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Valued Contributor
Posts: 837
Registered: ‎03-22-2014

Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

On 9/27/2014 pitdakota said:
On 9/27/2014 Jersey Born said:
On 9/27/2014 pitdakota said:
On 9/27/2014 Jersey Born said:

Here's a study that indicates children who received a flu shot did not have a less severe case of influenza when the vaccine failed to protect them from contracting influenza. This study conflicts with what we are being told. It may be only one study, but it would be interesting if more studies were done to determine if this is true for adults as well, and to confirm these findings in children in other countries. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24061274

There is no way that is what that study demonstrated. You are grossly exaggerating the results of that study.

Could you please identify the independent and dependent variable in this study please? And I am confused about generalizing results to the population as a whole. Could you please describe the principles applied in regard to generalizing results in research?

Just read the abstract. If you want to read the full article, pay for it and read it. I provided a link. You will have to reach your own independent conclusion as to what the article represents.

No, I don't have to pay for it. I have access to it via the University library database from which I am employed.

You cited it. I can tell you the independent/dependent variables, sample, and the impact of generalizing the results just reading the abstract.

I would have to look up the full text article to determine the statistical analysis, sample size etc. But that is not what I asked.

And so can you if you understand research. There is enough in the abstract to determine those things. If you cite research, one should be able to understand the study and what it means!

She can't back up what she claims. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Clearly. Lol

Valued Contributor
Posts: 837
Registered: ‎03-22-2014

Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

On 9/27/2014 pitdakota said:

The problem I have Jersey Born is that you try to push off your inaccurate interpretations on others for them to make a decision.

More power to you if you make the choice not to take the flu shot. But when you come on here misrepresenting scientific studies (as you do frequently) to influence others in their decision, that crosses the line.

It is quite clear you could not identify the dependent or independent variables in a research study that you posted the link to the abstract. That is research 101 content. If you cite research to support a claim here, you should at least be able to discuss the basic mechanics of that study.

^^^^^^^this.

Respected Contributor
Posts: 2,451
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

This is a direct quote from that link. The language is very clear. I wish you all the best.

"RESULTS: Vaccine failures were observed to show lower antibody response to TIV compared with other vaccine recipients. We did not find any evidence that vaccination reduced the severity or duration of clinical symptoms of reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction-confirmed vaccine-matched influenza B infections. Vaccination was not observed to alter viral load or shedding duration.

CONCLUSIONS: TIV was not observed to ameliorate clinical symptoms or viral shedding among vaccine failures compared with infected placebo recipients. Lower antibody response might have explained vaccine failure and also lack of effect in reducing clinical symptoms and viral shedding upon infection. Our results are based on a randomized controlled trial of split virus inactivated vaccine and may not be applicable to other vaccine types. Further studies in vaccine failure among children will be important in future vaccine development."

If you feel a direct quote from the abstract is in any way a misrepresentation, then there is not much more I can add to this conversation, and I won't waste my time any longer. I added bold to the text to support my prior comment.

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Registered: ‎04-30-2012

Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

I get the flu shot ever year and still always get the flu in a bad bad way

Valued Contributor
Posts: 837
Registered: ‎03-22-2014

Re: Brigham and Women’s nurses sue over flu shot mandate

On 9/27/2014 kcladyz said:

I get the flu shot ever year and still always get the flu in a bad bad way

Your doctor confirmed you have the actual flu every single year? Never heard of that before.