Wellness

[PatsyCline]

On 9/27/2014 poregirl said:

There are 400,000 Iatrogenic (physician caused) deaths each year- you can't be too careful.

How many people did doctors save in that time though?

[Jersey Born]

Lavendar, I think the answer to your question could be determined if your question were rephrased slightly as, "What do the nurses at Brigham know that the nurses at Dana Farber don't?

Karen Higgins, a nurse with asthma at Boston Medical Center, who also happened to be the co-president of the nursing union at the time, opted for the flu shot when given a choice of the shot or the mask, as she was afraid she wouldn't be able to breathe wearing the mask for her entire shift every day during flu season. She had already had a prior adverse reaction to a flu shot, so she was between a rock and a hard place in making her decision, if she wanted to remain employed. So, she took the flu shot, and it almost killed her, and the very people at her hospital who worked with her every day, saw first hand what happened to her. Her co-workers at her very hospital actually had to save her life, as she went into severe respiratory distress at work. Here's what happened:

http://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/news/2012/12/nurses-union-opposes-mandated-masking-of-healthy-n...

Witnessing such a frightening medical event, to one of your own, can definitely make an impact on the perception of risk a medical product carries, no matter what that medical product might be. We are all different, of course, and we all react differently to vaccines and to other medicines. The medical staff at Boston Medical Center got to witness this first hand. Perhaps that explains the reason for the much higher uptake at Dana Faber. Perhaps the nurses at Brigham know about the event at Boston Medical Center.

[dooBdoo]

Other than the news article in the original post, we might as well just resurrect all the old threads debating the flu vaccine.

I'll repeat what I've said before. It's dangerous and naive to think any of us can get the best, definitive medical advice from the internet. Or from anonymous posters on a forum. As someone else wrote here or on another thread, I fear it's an ego-booster to fancy oneself the forum medical guru.

Anyone can copy and paste articles or cherry-pick the parts supporting their view. And they can use multisyllabic words, and exotic terms, and appear to be exceptionally wise. Anyone can spread rumor, innuendo, even conspiracy theories. You’ll notice they never listen to opposing views, never change their minds, always are the ultimate authority (in their opinion). But there's a reason health professionals spend years on their education, years working with other experienced, knowledgeable experts, dedicate their lives to medicine. It's ludicrous, perhaps narcissistic and grandiose for us to think we can understand and properly interpret all the medical literature and then advise our fellow posters.

It's not just a sharing of ideas as some have said. Some posters read, listen, and then do exactly as they see advised here on these forums. That's really frightening.

I have no idea why the internet seems to have spawned this idea that we know as much as educated, experienced physicians, pharmacists, researchers, nutritionists know. Or why disdain for medical professionals is "in vogue." Seems to have become the "chic" thing to do, vilifying physicians. I'm weary of it.

Please, be extremely cautious of scare tactics. Please, be a good advocate for yourself, read information from reputable websites, but then consult your qualified personal healthcare team who know you. Who know your history, your sensitivities, your lifestyle, your family, etc.

They will be there, in person, in real life, if and when you need them, if and when you're ill -- internet "medical advisers" will not.

Yes, everyone has the right to post within the standards. Nevertheless, I will continue to wish QVC would stop all the medical and pharmaceutical advice being dispensed. But, of course, if someone follows what they read here and they or their loved ones get sick ... QVC won't be there for them, either ...

[Moonchilde]

On 9/27/2014 dooBdoo said:

Other than the news article in the original post, we might as well just resurrect all the old threads debating the flu vaccine.

I'll repeat what I've said before. It's dangerous and naive to think any of us can get the best, definitive medical advice from the internet. Or from anonymous posters on a forum. As someone else wrote here or on another thread, I fear it's an ego-booster to fancy oneself the forum medical guru.

Anyone can copy and paste articles or cherry-pick the parts supporting their view. And they can use multisyllabic words, and exotic terms, and appear to be exceptionally wise. Anyone can spread rumor, innuendo, even conspiracy theories. You’ll notice they never listen to opposing views, never change their minds, always are the ultimate authority (in their opinion). But there's a reason health professionals spend years on their education, years working with other experienced, knowledgeable experts, dedicate their lives to medicine. It's ludicrous, perhaps narcissistic and grandiose for us to think we can understand and properly interpret all the medical literature and then advise our fellow posters.

It's not just a sharing of ideas as some have said. Some posters read, listen, and then do exactly as they see advised here on these forums. That's really frightening.

I have no idea why the internet seems to have spawned this idea that we know as much as educated, experienced physicians, pharmacists, researchers, nutritionists know. Or why disdain for medical professionals is "in vogue." Seems to have become the "chic" thing to do, vilifying physicians. I'm weary of it.

Please, be extremely cautious of scare tactics. Please, be a good advocate for yourself, read information from reputable websites, but then consult your qualified personal healthcare team who know you. Who know your history, your sensitivities, your lifestyle, your family, etc.

They will be there, in person, in real life, if and when you need them, if and when you're ill -- internet "medical advisers" will not.

Yes, everyone has the right to post within the standards. Nevertheless, I will continue to wish QVC would stop all the medical and pharmaceutical advice being dispensed. But, of course, if someone follows what they read here and they or their loved ones get sick ... QVC won't be there for them, either ...

Brava. Very well said.

[focksie]

Doobdoo, I don't see it as posters thinking they are medical gurus. I think a lot of posters who participate in health threads are just relating their own personal experiences and so what if they cut and paste articles. I think it is valuable to have these discussions and I know I have learned a lot from the health discussions here and they have provoked questions in my mind that I have followed up on. As to this specific thread, I know where I stand on the flu shot issue but I still like to read everyone's POV on it.

Frankly, I shouldn't have to feel (and don't feel) personally responsible for those reading who do not understand to take everything here with a grain of salt and to DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND CONSULT WITH THEIR OWN PHYSICIANS.

I would not like to see these discussions discontinued.

[terrier3]

I love near a very old historic cemetery.

There are literally thousands of people buried in 1918 who died from the influenza. There is a family that lost 5 children and the mother in the space of two months. They have a huge monument - they were obviously well off people.

I can only imagine the sorrow in that home in 1918.

Chances of dying from flu is greater than dying from a reaction to the shot.

[NoelSeven]

On 9/25/2014 Jersey Born said:

Considering the science is very clear that flu shots are nowhere near 100% efficacious, and their efficacy drops precipitously when they are taken two years in a row, I am glad the Boston nurses are claiming their right to make their own informed medical consent decisions regarding annual flu shots. Good for them.

They have that right, for sure. And the hospital has the right not to let them anywhere near patients without a flu shot. It's too dangerous for many of us.

[NoelSeven]

No vaccine is 100% effective, I think most people know that.

What it does is drastically reduce the chance of getting the flu, and if we do catch it, the impact is less severe.

[dooBdoo]

On 9/27/2014 focksie said:

Doobdoo, I don't see it as posters thinking they are medical gurus. I think a lot of posters who participate in health threads are just relating their own personal experiences and so what if they cut and paste articles. I think it is valuable to have these discussions and I know I have learned a lot from the health discussions here and they have provoked questions in my mind that I have followed up on. As to this specific thread, I know where I stand on the flu shot issue but I still like to read everyone's POV on it.

Frankly, I shouldn't have to feel (and don't feel) personally responsible for those reading who do not understand to take everything here with a grain of salt and to DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND CONSULT WITH THEIR OWN PHYSICIANS.

I would not like to see these discussions discontinued.

Hi, focksie! (O/T - I hope you saw my post to you in the “Delayed Grief” thread.)

There are some who simply relate personal experience, or provide names of resources, and leave it at that. Those aren’t the ones I’m addressing. Others provide specific directions and advice and repeatedly try to drive it home with all sorts of links and studies alleged to be definitive.

To answer “so what if they cut and paste articles” … recently a poster used a study to support her medical stance, gave her own interpretation and summary of the study. Problem was, the study’s findings were the opposite of what she presented them to be … and only those who found and read the article would have known it. In other cases, parts of articles are used to present a scenario that, in fact, is one in a million and doesn’t represent the overwhelming findings … but, again, unless everyone follows up and realizes it, the posts sound authoritative and many people believe them to be factual and compelling ... when, in truth, they’re misleading at best and untrue at worst.

Can't tell you how many times I've seen posters read such things and say, "Wow, I didn't know that, you've changed my mind." And off they go with dangerous misinformation.

I guess I do feel personally responsible for those reading who do not understand everything and who don’t do their own research. I feel a responsibility to speak up. Maybe part of it is spending years working in hospitals and clinics, seeing the results of people who’ve been led astray, watching doctors and nurses try to undo the damage done by bad advice given to innocent victims. I believe in the counsel “do not stand idly by,” and I suppose I feel I am my sisters’ and brothers’ keeper when I have the chance to say something, to sound an alert. The sad fact is the anonymous “experts” feel no responsibility … and they truly won't be responsible, won't be there in flesh and blood, to help if and when their advice leads to sickness or worse.

The internet is a wealth of good information. It is also filled with pitfalls and hazards, wolves in sheep's clothing, charlatans in cyber lab coats. Just as I hope there always will be vigilant guardians of truth in our real life, I will continue to hope they will exist in our cyber world.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

[Mominohio]

I applaud anyone who stands up and doesn't let a company, a government, or any other person dictate what they will choose for their health care options. I've never taken a flu shot, and have no intention of doing so in the foreseeable future. We have a nation full of people who think a woman's body is her business, and she has the right to "choose" but mandate that everyone take a vaccine. It is still a free country (kind of) and NO ONE here should be dictating to or belittling people about their choice to take or not take a flu shot or any other vaccine. They call it the practice of medicine for a reason. It is not foolproof, and we see over and over again that drugs and treatments once thought safe and mainstream are called into question and discarded as time goes on. Science only goes so far. People have gut feelings, intuition, and educated decision making skills that they should employ when making such decisions, not just accepting blanket mandates from a medical profession that revolves around the making of money (insurance companies, drug companies, and all the rest).