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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

@Icegoddess   

 

you tiny woman you (don't you have to work harder on the ice because your legs are short?  or maybe they're not because i'm 5'4 and very high-waisted so i'm like legs with a head on them) --

 

Yes, oversize and volume and big big big is in and yes, that's hard to pull off and even these models can't in some cases.  

 

Don't know which Hadid is which either but the one without the hat looks like she's wearing workout clothes.

 

LOVE Mya's.  She's so beautiful.  And always has a lovely smile.

 

Also love Emily Rajtjtjajajfjski.  So gorgeous.  And always looks so beautiful.

 

I don't know who Erica Jayne is but she's a hooker, right?  She gets worst dressed runner-up after Anna W.

 

Rachel Zoe always wears caftans.  I think only wears caftans.  This one looks like a shroud.

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

@LoriLoriEmily Rajtjtjajajfjski's, I'm not into plunging necklines, but I would be okay with it without the peek-a-boob.  

 

I do not have long legs.  I'll have to see if your excuse works with my skating coach, haha.  "But, I can't skate any faster with these short legs."  My legs are more like tree trunks.  I have another skater friend who has legs to die for.  But, she has a belly; it's a family trait.  I have a flat stomach (and chest) but fat legs.  I have difficulty finding boots I can wear because of my calves and I don't like the look of the wide-leg variety or the ones with elastic in them.  

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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

Did anyone already post this? (Sorry...I have been in NCAA basketball world all month....my memory is gonzo.)

The Washington Post has a great article entitled "Let'sTalk About Project Runway Stars Using 'old lady' to Describe Unflattering Clothes."

It is written by Robin Givhan, Wapo's fashion critic. (She won a 2006 Pulitzer Prize for criticism.)

I have been unsuccessfully trying to post the link here.

The article points out that the average age of the PR judges dropped from about 45 to 31 this season, and new mentor Christian Siriano is about half Tim Gunn's age.

A quote from the article:

"The fashion industry has long had a fraught relationship with older women, which in its estimation is women over the age of 50. While older women typically have greater purchasing power, fashion always has its eyes turned toward youth. Fashion loves a famine, a sprite, an ingenue. It abhors a matron."
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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

@MarnieRez3, you could always just copy/paste the link.  We couldn't click on it, but could open another browser window and paste there.  

 

The thing is, as we have mentioned before, old age does not mean we have to dress old age.  But, most people have an image in their head of how grandma dresses.  I generally use the term matronly rather than grandma although I have also used the term old lady.  Just like I told my doctor I felt like a 90 year old when I was on Crestor.  There are probably a few 90-yr-olds that might take issue with that too.  If we can't use either of those terms, what term would be appropriate for it?

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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

It's a darn good question, @Icegoddess. In England, they call those looks "mumsy," but I think that insults mothers!
I suppose as we age, there will be another term for it, the same way Baby Boomers started coming up with new terms for "Grandma."
I grew up with a mother who wore mail-order polyester slacks fom the Haband catalog and a father who wore Thom McCann shoes and suits from Sears, so I can understand fully why my generation avoids "Mom jeans" and having a "Dad bod."
I'm 54, but I do know that I sound more and more like my mother everyday, so I suppose I may one day start dressing like her, God Help Me!
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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

@MarnieRez3,The older generation is not too good at coming up with new terms for things.  That's another place where youth excels.  And as soon as the older generation starts picking up those terms they feel the need to come up with another one because now it's no longer "hip". 

 

I guess for me there's a difference between old lady and an older person.  There's a lady who skates who is younger than I, but she dresses and acts older.  My coach, who also coaches her, even says that he treats her more with kid gloves because she just comes across as old (and thus possibly fragile).  So, if I fall down he might say "You ok?" whereas if she falls down he would be more likely to rush over to check on her.  

 

BTW, Mom Jeans came about after your mother's polyester pants.  They're just high-waisted jeans, straight legged jeas.  Well, really NOT High-waisted, but more like at the waist.  A little tidbit a lot of people don't know, your actual waist is actually above the belly button.  And while I don't wear Mom jeans, I would probably have an easier time finding a pair that fit.  Because the waist is lower in today's jeans, you need a larger opening at the top meaning those of us with bubble butts always end up with a gap at the top.  

 

Speaking of jeans, that is something I would probably never try to make.  The seams are different and you need to do a lot of top-stitching with orange thread on several layers of heavy fabric to make them not look homemade.  

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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

@MarnieRez3   @Icegoddess 

 

Q doesn't allow links to Washington Post because it contains political content.

 

I'm over the limit (they only let you read a certain number for free on the PC but if I cared enough I'd get my Fire tablet where I can read anything but I don't care enough because I don't like her point) -- anyway...

 

...Fashion is fleeting because today they have an article on how awesome Christian is.  I can hear Santino singing, "It's fashion!  Fashion!  Lighten up it's just fashion!"

 

I worked in tv and broadcast advertising and people's heads explode when I say the ratings don't count anybody over 54.  But IMO that's going to change as the boomers age. 

 

The snippet I saw in WaPo -- that older people have more disposable income -- ignores two things, one my opinion, one fact: 

 

Fact:  Young people spend their money more on things like clothes and entertainment and stuff.  And they impulse shop.   Older people as a group think more before they spend.  .

 

And as a group younger people are not brand-loyal whereas older people, I know some women who get all their clothes at Chico's or Macey's, etc., you get it. 

 

Younger people strew their money wherever, they will pass by a shop window, go in and buy it (whether or not they can afford it LOL).  There's a truism, get the first baby in your diapers and the ones to follow will wear the same brand; thus does brand loyalty develop.

 

Opinion:  Naomi Campbell completely blows that woman's argument out of the water.  

 

If the writer chooses to be insulted, and people here choose to be insulted, they're making a choice.  We know better than to let anyone pigeonhole us; we can only do it to ourselves and we choose not to!

 

 

 

 

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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

 

LETS TALK ABOUT PROJECT RUNWAY STARS USING 'OLD LADY' TO DESCRIBE UNFLATTERING CLOTHES

By Robin Givhan

April 3, 2019 

Washington Post

 

As is her habit, Carolyn Dry, who lives in Winona, a modestly sized Minnesota city along the Mississippi River, sat down Thursday evening to watch the newest iteration of “Project Runway.” She is a longtime fan of the fashion reality series and, as a retired architectural design professor, has a keen understanding of aesthetics. But the only thing “Project Runway” managed to do last week was infuriate her because several stars of the reality show repeatedly used the phrase “old lady” as a synonym for dowdy, out-of-date or irrelevant.


“It took me three references, and then I thought, ‘What the heck is this?’ And then I got angrier and angrier,” Dry, 77, tells me in a telephone conversation, her quiet and understated tone belying the fury within. “I found it hard to watch to the end, actually.”


Dry stuck with the episode because she could not resist seeing how the designers handled their assigned challenge, which was to create a head-to-toe look using a single print and which most of them accomplished quite nicely. But it was hard for her to muster much enthusiasm for the ultimate winner. “By then, I was really angry and calling friends.”

 

In fact, Dry was not going to let this drop — which is how our telephone conversation came to be. Dry is dogged. She also happens to be an inventor — she came up with a self-repairing form of concrete, what’s called a smart building material. She’s working on a way to recycle the millions of plastic water bottles used by the U.S. military. In other words, Dry is not sitting around with nothing to do other than complain about a TV show.


She called AARP, where, she says, a representative explained that advocacy wasn’t part of the organization’s mission but her complaint was duly noted. She wrote to Bravo, which airs “Project Runway.” And she wrote to designer Christian Siriano, who serves as on-air mentor to the contestants and who had warned them to avoid looks that were “old lady” or “Golden Girls” — even though he admitted to an unbridled affection for the Girls.


His point was to succinctly encourage the contestants to make sure their designs looked modern and that the models looked vivacious. In response, the contestants promised not to go full “old lady” — although one designer gamely defended the fashion sense of his grandmother. The phrase was repeated and repeated like an incantation.

 

To be clear, Dry knew precisely what Siriano and the contestants meant. They weren’t aiming to be offensive or to publicly shun or shame an entire demographic. But she was irritated by the language, which is not exclusive to “Project Runway” but is part of ourbroader vocabulary and used by plenty of women.


“I dress women of all ages and have for years. I have female customers that I see on a daily basis that speak in these terms to describe how they want to look in clothes to me,” Siriano wrote in an email. “I would never equate the term ‘old lady’ with something negative, but rather as a way to describe something that simply looks dated.”


“On a personal note,” Siriano added, “both my mom and sister have great style but would never want to wear what the other does! Many women describe the way they want to look based on age and that goes both ways, young and old.”

 

Dry would like an apology. (Wouldn’t we all like a public apology for something?) She would like it to come from Siriano, but in truth, the designer is really just a stand-in for a culture that persists in devaluing older women in ways large and small.


“This is obviously a much larger conversation about society and the language we use toward one another, in general, that should be addressed,” Siriano wrote.


Indeed, for each silver-haired model with sharp cheekbones and a long, lean body that designers put on the runway or venerate in an advertising campaign or on the red carpet, they articulate countless cautions against “old lady” style, or ensembles looking too “mother-of-the-bride” or “mumsy” — all of which land like a thousand paper cuts.


Fashion is dreams, insecurities and emotions writ large. And how we talk about fashion is an extension of how we talk about ourselves and each other. “Old lady” is not just an adjective married to a noun. It’s not a nonjudgmental fact. To tell someone not to be such an old lady is to say: Don’t be fearful. Or don’t be a whiner. It’s a description of invisibility. Of unsightliness.

 

A woman may be 65, active and fashion-obsessed. But she’s likely to see herself — and perhaps her friends — as outliers for her age, rather than part of what is considered the norm.


“Why is this still in our language? It’s so accepted. Why is it accepted?” Dry demands. “I consume fashion, and I love thinking about it and watching it.”

“I’m not ugly. I’m not unfashionable,” Dry adds. “I’m not to be dismissed.”


The language comes out of stubborn stereotypes that to be an old lady is to be dumpy and frumpy, which is actually a choice rather than an inevitability. There are plenty of 20-somethings, after all, who can hold their own in the frowzy sweepstakes.


“Project Runway” has changed considerably since it debuted in 2004. It continues its original format of winnowing a cast of aspiring design stars through a series of challenges until one wins a $250,000 grand prize. But the cast has been almost completely overhauled. Original host Heidi Klum and mentor Tim Gunn left to develop a new show. Judge Zac Posen, who replaced Michael Kors, has also moved on. The only original cast member remaining is Nina Garcia, who’s now the editor in chief of Elle magazine.

 

The new crew includes Siriano, along with former Teen Vogue editor Elaine Welteroth, designer Brandon Maxwell and model Karlie Kloss.


The shift has meant that the average age of the judges dropped from about 45 to 31. Siriano is about half Gunn’s age. That is not to accuse this cast of being either ageist or insensitive, only that sometimes the messenger matters almost as much as the message. It can mean the difference between a remark sounding judgmental or self-deprecating.

 

The fashion industry has long had a fraught relationship with older women, which in its estimation is women over the age of 50. While older women typically have greater purchasing power, fashion always has its eyes turned toward youth. Fashion loves a gamine, a sprite, an ingénue. It abhors a matron.

 

This is changing, to some degree. Models age 50 and older have become more visible on the runways, most often with former top models such as Patti Hansen or Beverly Johnson making return appearances. But the language remains stubbornly biased.

 

Grandpa sweaters — those roomy cardigans — are cozy. There is nothing from grandma’s closet that has the same unironic connotations — although both dad jeans and mom jeans have been reborn as fashionable by the coolest of the cool.


Hipsters have embraced dad sneakers as a mark of style. And even the “dad bod” is considered a pleasant middle ground between six-pack abs and beer belly. The “dad bod” is regular, and regular is a laudable goal. Moms always seem to be in the process of working toward an exceptional body, even when regular is both healthy and lovely.
We are all guilty of using linguistic shorthand. It’s easier, more vivid and even clearer to say a dress is matronly rather than go into detail about its boxy silhouette, drab color and outdated embellishments.


But the language of fashion is not simply about clothes. It’s also about the people we envision wearing them — as well as the people we don’t.

--30--

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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

@Icegoddess @LoriLori

 

Who knew our friendly debate was already making national news?? 

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Re: Project Runway 4/4 - Back to Bravo! - SPOILERS

Well, as a 60 yr-old lady who cringes at people telling me how I should look at this age, I still reserve the right to call looks old-lady or matronly, or whatever.  Personally, I think that lady, Dry, is going way too far in her quest and expecting an apology from Christian.  People get too offended these days over way too much in my opinion.  Maybe she should go after that Geico? commercial next, the one where people turn into their parents after they buy a house.